United3dArtists Archive

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 12 Dec 2010, 12:01

Just a little tinkering with tS (workspace side of course) and Vue. Trying to get back into the swing of things.. As always, comments and crits welcome. Probably throw a barn off to the side with an old wagon wheel and some mountains in the distance. I have not decided whether or not it is going to be a sunny kind of melting day or a dark and looming snow storm kind of day yet.

froo · Post by **froo** » 13 Dec 2010, 05:15

Very nice tahnoak. Looks like here in CO!

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 13 Dec 2010, 11:24

i think sunny will work well... So far so good.. iam looking forward the evolution of this one ;)

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 13 Dec 2010, 12:09

looking good so far, tahnoak... I assume you imported the tS object into Vue to put it on the landscape, right?

Some suggestions if you want some, might want to straighten out those ropes between the posts, doesn't look right if it bends in mid air like that and maybe make the posts more squar?

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 13 Dec 2010, 12:15

Froo... thanks. Well then you should be able to provide a LOT of feedback then

bitkar... thank you. Unfortunately I am now on travel for work and won't be touching this until at least Friday because my company strictly controls what is installed on the company laptop and I was not about to try and bring my OWN laptop AND my work laptop on this trip. I think you are right. I think it will stay sunny (or at least partly cloudy) with some melting. I can make some puddles using the trick my old friend Weevil provided. The hard part will be trying to do some icicles hanging from the wires (which I am not overly fond of at this point). I am anxiously awaiting rjeff's progress on his "Sleigh What" piece to see how he tackles that issue.

theuns... in case I have never said this in the past "I HATE DOING ROPES/WIRES/ etc... " hahahaha.. I think I need to rotate them so that the bend is downward. I was going for the old wired fence look. Now that you mention it, the posts do look more like planks than posts.

Some other things I think I will incorporate are:

1) tracks (vehicle tracks) to show this as a traveled path
2) vegetation because even the prairie in winter has some vegetation still.. (Vue will take care of that for me)
3) snow on the fence posts (at least on the tops of them)
4) maybe a portion of a house off to the right, just enough to see smoke coming from a chimney to let you know that someone lives there and is staying warm inside.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 13 Dec 2010, 12:26

yeah, drooping down will work nicely

i usually use the "lathe" tool a lot for wires and ropes... sweep multiple times also work well if you do it in one go, because then you can still adjust the inner edge loops individually by just selecting...

ps. do you import the trueSpace object into Vue or the Vue landscape into trueSpace?

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 13 Dec 2010, 21:18

theuns wrote:
ps. do you import the trueSpace object into Vue or the Vue landscape into trueSpace?

thats another how can i bust Truespace question.....

Importing Vue scenes into Truespace is like transporting an elephant in your car trunk.... !

Nice picture Tahnoak and welcome back !
Peter

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 14 Dec 2010, 03:24

Thanks for answering that Peter and for the welcome.. yeah, I tried to import a Vue landscape into trueSpace once.. ONCE! Didn't work out so well for me.

So, I create the objects in trueSpace and then export them as an .obj file and import them into Vue. I try to do all the UVMapping in trueSpace first too.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 14 Dec 2010, 07:32

kewl! and it kept the texturing u did in trueSpace perfectly? i've tried importing tS obj's into Vue a few years ago (Vue 6 i think) but it lost all its textures... got Vue 8 pioneer so I'll have to try it again and see how it works...

what I normally do is make a general backdrop scene in Vue, save it and use it as a image backdrop in my trueSpace scene... works pretty well but you can't have interaction between the objects and the scene shadows, lighting, obj behind scene props etc)

haven't tried with Bryce yet, bought Bryce 7.5 the other day because it was such a good price but still considering to get Vue 8 Frontier or something with a OBJ import/export add on module... will see what special prices they have when they release Vue 9 (is it just me or are they release new Vue versions very quickly these days, felt like yesterday that the brought out Vue 8)...

and talking about a farm scene, I still work on-and-off on my old wood cabin that I started almost 10 years ago [below]... busy with the furniture inside at the moment, done the kitchen and the fire place with a rug, rocking chair etc... still want to do the dining set and then the next room with the bedroom stuff before I start the outside yard like you are, but maybe i'll change the sequence i planned and start with the outside just so we can do it together and learn together [me learning to use tS obj in Vue from you

]

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 19 Dec 2010, 12:07

Wow.. that is some great detail theuns.. I especially like the lighting and the late afternoon feel that it gives.

As for importing into Vue perfectly? Yes, as long as I UVMap it first using the editor in tS. I find that when I import the object into Vue I have to reduce the "Max Smoothing Angle" on the object otherwise I get dark areas on the object.

Using Vue for background generation is great. I do the same thing with Terragen sometimes. No vegetation but it can make some fantastic scenery.

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 19 Dec 2010, 15:50

NURBS / Loft is the way to go for getting the 'droop' in ropes.
It's easy to adjust with the NURBS control point handles and the results are much quicker and more natural looking than manually sweeping.

Once you get them looking the way you like, it's also easy to convert them to polygons for export to Vue.

It's pretty simple- you need two curves.
One is a small closed circle the size/diameter of your rope.
The other represents the length and 'run' of the rope. This one threads from post to post.
Use a 4 View split screen setup for easiest positioning of the points.
At first, just put a curve point at each post- it's ok if the curve is initially straight lines.

After you finish drawing the length of the rope, then go back and edit the curve by right-clicking it.
Select each point in turn and click/drag on the control point handles.
This will 'put the swoop in your sweep'.
Hold Control key to do each side of the control point independently.
Drag them down so that the curve starts to drape down in between each post.
You really don't even need a control point in between posts, just use the control handle length and angle to define the swoop.

When satisfied, scale and move the closed circular curve that represents the diameter of the rope into position at the end of the run.
At this point, save the curves into a Curve Library.
Then, with the closed circle selected, click 'Loft', then select the second curve.
Boom!

Adjust as desired via right click using the resulting Draw Panels.

Convert to polygonal object w/ the Convert NURBS tool for export.
Right-click 'Convert to' icon first for options to adjust resolution.
As usual, Save object into Library before attempting conversion.

Mini-Tut on Loft and Rail tools here.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 20 Dec 2010, 02:29

spacekdet... THANK YOU for that mini-tutorial. I will do that as soon as I can. That would be fantastic if I could actually start creating wires and ropes. I shy away from many scenes that I would love to do because I know I can't do the wires that it would require.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 20 Dec 2010, 02:31

Updated shot. I recreated the fence posts and UVMapped it in trueSpace before importing it into Vue. I think this looks much better. Next I will try to create the fence as suggested by spacekdet.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 20 Dec 2010, 02:51

Modelside. You can also make ropes with subdivision surfaces. Make a cylinder with several sections (edge loops around the circumference). Length is from post to post. Use point edit mode to position the sections for the droop and then subdivide to smooth it. Spacekdet's nurbs method will probably make smooth droop curves with less work.

With nurbs or SDS try using a photo of of real ropes or wires as a background and fitting the curve to that.

If I trusted the IK and animation to keep the skin attached and not have things pass through each other then I'd make a many jointed IK spine with a cylinder skin, pin the ends, and let physics make the droop.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 20 Dec 2010, 02:53

So what I did to make the original wires was to create a freehand curve in the shape that I wanted and then saved it as a path. Then created a small cylinder and went into edit mode, selected one open face and then did a macro sweep using the path that I just created earlier.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 28 Dec 2010, 11:13

Updated screenie. Tinkering with some atmospheric and eco-system settings.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 28 Dec 2010, 11:21

like the wood texture...

is it a barn or a cabin? if it's a barn you might want to make the doors bigger, if it is a cabin then the it seems too high...

like how it is coming along though...

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 28 Dec 2010, 13:08

Supposed to be a barn.. good catch on the doors. I've looked at this sooo many times and it never struck me that the doors were too small..

Thanks for the feedback.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 28 Dec 2010, 15:50

unless of course it is a side door, then it is fine..l. but I think the main doors would be nicer as a focal point... how are you going to make a little path in Vue leading to the doors?

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 28 Dec 2010, 16:17

I agree that the doors should be the focal point and I was hoping you wouldn't ask about the path. I think what I am going to have to do is use essentially the same technique they used in one of the tutorials about creating paths using masks layers and going deep into the material editor.

Unless of course you have an easier suggestion????? (hopeful)

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 28 Dec 2010, 17:02

Hi you can use the terrain editor and ajust the hights and brush size
make a map in photoshop and paint it on
good luck

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 28 Dec 2010, 18:32

Pugman.. great idea.. I don't have Photoshop but use GIMP..essentially the same thing though.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 28 Dec 2010, 21:33

Didn't know you get height paint brushes in Vue?

Which Vue are you using? Can I do it in Vue 8 Pioneer?

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 29 Dec 2010, 06:20

Yes vue 8 has the same method just looks different.
i have vue9 esprit all modules but 1

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 29 Dec 2010, 07:03

then i'll have to go and search for that option... still considering to get Vue /9 Esprit or higher...

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 29 Dec 2010, 07:12

here in vue8 the bottom butten is to bring in a hight pic what you want
i have used this for foot prints in the snow

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 29 Dec 2010, 12:06

kwl! tnx pugman

this will help with the river I'm trying to create for my stone bridge

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 31 Dec 2010, 10:35

Great stuff! I am using Vue 7 Pro Studio.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 31 Dec 2010, 11:10

Sorry tahnoak, i was trying to help i did not know which version you had
hope you find a way
Ralph

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 31 Dec 2010, 18:12

No worries Ralph. I think I nipped it in the bud very simply.

1) create a new image in GIMP (2000 x 2000)
2) Used the paths tool and created two paths and filled them with black
3) Used Gaussian blur to blend them with a gray background in the image
4) Saved the image as a .jpg and used it as a mask.

Using the mask attached I created the path attached. I think it looks pretty good.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 31 Dec 2010, 22:55

tahnoak wrote:
Using the mask attached I created the path attached. I think it looks pretty good.

I think it looks great! I may not always comment on your outstanding work but
like Santa " I know when you've been nice"

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 01 Jan 2011, 11:18

Thanks Bob. I appreciate that!

Happy New Year to you and the family!

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 12 Jan 2011, 09:37

Still working on this. Spent time on the barn. Need to detail it but here is some atmosphere thrown in there. Next I need to blend the ground and snow a little better in the foreground. I want patches of snow to give the impression of a partial thaw after an early winter snow storm.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 12 Jan 2011, 10:38

brighter is better... this lighting dont look good. barn looks flat, not sure if there is some bump map at least.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 12 Jan 2011, 16:56

Turning into another Tahnoak masterpiece.

The lighting is too dark and there should be more difference, contrast, between the light and dark parts. The brightness has a sameness that is not good.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 15 Jan 2011, 02:33

bitkar wrote:brighter is better... this lighting dont look good. barn looks flat, not sure if there is some bump map at least.

Thanks for the feedback. I must admit that I am more partial to this atmosphere. I have not added any bump mapping to the barn yet and there is still quite a lot of modeling to do.

One thing you will see from my work is that it RARELY ends up how I started off envisioning it would be. My scenes tend to take over themselves which I am completely okay with. I don't sketch my work out ahead of time. I just start with a concept and then just tweak it until I think it looks good.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 15 Jan 2011, 02:35

Finis wrote:Turning into another Tahnoak masterpiece.

The lighting is too dark and there should be more difference, contrast, between the light and dark parts. The brightness has a sameness that is not good.

Finis.. thanks for the confidence and I appreciate the feedback also. Like I mentioned to Bitkar, I am growing very fond of this atmosphere. I need to add some contrast as you mentioned and do more with the textures (probably even change the name of the image to "An Early Frost" or something like that..

I am hoping that once I tweak the textures and add some bump mapping and maybe displacement, it will help create more shadows and contrast.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 15 Jan 2011, 13:39

ok, i will be watching this project and see how it will develop... but staine was right about the contrast. I would make it look more like from a photocamera. To overbright some piece of sky and maybe snow a little, coz snow reacts to light very brightly in real, especially when camera reacts more to brightness, so it will look more natural. Like a good taken artistic photo. ;)

but just go on and good luck.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 16 Jan 2011, 12:06

working on tweaking the foreground terrain. Looking better but I think I overtweaked..thank goodness for version control!!

. I also changed the texture on the barn/farm house and added some windows and the door (door is ajar). Think I will add some telephone poles as well.

Thanks for all the comments/recommendations.

Here are some before and after shots of tweaking the foreground. I think it shows that I went too far ( a little) but it should be simple to clean it up some..

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 16 Jan 2011, 13:39

Hi,
To be honest, I don't think you went too far with the tweaks. Although they gave the clear shift to the time frame of your scene. It seems (only my impression) The picture shows now rather Late Winter on the Prairie than the Early one. I mean before it was the first snow, which covers everything with the fresh whiteness. After modification it looks rather like snow is lasting despite of incoming spring over the Prairie.
Both motifs are strong in some way. Looks like purely artistic decision IMHO

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 16 Jan 2011, 15:18

I too like the Prairie9. The first one is also nice.
The fence post and the roof need to be re-textured in
my opinion. The roof line seems to be missing a texture and the post
have a distracting texture applied and repeated on each post. The eye should be
lead to the barn and not stop at each fence post. The barn is showing age but the post are all
perfect in texture and placement. After all these years I would expect them to twist and tilt slightly from one
another.
(My first thoughts)

Everything else looks great.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 16 Jan 2011, 16:56

Math Path wrote:Hi,
To be honest, I don't think you went too far with the tweaks. Although they gave the clear shift to the time frame of your scene. It seems (only my impression) The picture shows now rather Late Winter on the Prairie than the Early one. I mean before it was the first snow, which covers everything with the fresh whiteness. After modification it looks rather like snow is lasting despite of incoming spring over the Prairie.
Both motifs are strong in some way. Looks like purely artistic decision IMHO

Thanks Math Path.. I agree, that the tweaked shot does give the feeling of late winter and early spring, more of a thawing kind of warmth. I need to put some more "liquid" into the scene. The paths would be a bit more muddy, I would think. I am working on the telephone poles as well. Maybe an old grain silo is in order too, we'll see.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 16 Jan 2011, 16:58

Steinie wrote:I too like the Prairie9. The first one is also nice.
The fence post and the roof need to be re-textured in
my opinion. The roof line seems to be missing a texture and the post
have a distracting texture applied and repeated on each post. The eye should be
lead to the barn and not stop at each fence post. The barn is showing age but the post are all
perfect in texture and placement. After all these years I would expect them to twist and tilt slightly from one
another.
(My first thoughts)

Everything else looks great.

Bob,
Yes, I have not done the roof texture yet and the posts will certainly be cleaned up (and skewed to reflect years of strong winds on the open prairie). I would love to put an old tractor or old truck in the scene but I just do not have the skills for that.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 21 Jan 2011, 11:05

Thanks for the tractor Bob!!!!! I had to mess it up a little bit though. I'll have her good as new when she comes back to you!

Here is an update. I am not able to work as frequently as I would like. Still tinkering with some things, to include atmospheres.

still working on fixing the texture on the roof.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 21 Jan 2011, 11:41

i dont like the look of that poles.... maybe too much of bumpmap, wrong or too sharp. It doesnt look good. Otherwise its developing nicely.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 21 Jan 2011, 15:14

bitkar wrote:i dont like the look of that poles.... maybe too much of bumpmap, wrong or too sharp. It doesnt look good. Otherwise its developing nicely.

Right there with you bitkar. I don't know why they are showing up like that. I am still working with those. But all in all I am happy with how it's coming along.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 21 Jan 2011, 15:30

ya, its looking better and better.. btw: dont forget an air wesel ;)

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Jan 2011, 17:30

This is starting to look realy cool as usual for your work .

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 21 Jan 2011, 23:28

bitkar... excellent idea.. I am assuming you mean a windmill!!!! How could I forget..

pugman, thank you! It's nice to be back in the saddle again after far too long away. Damn family and work

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 22 Jan 2011, 21:12

tahnoak wrote:bitkar... excellent idea.. I am assuming you mean a windmill!!!! How could I forget..

pugman, thank you! It's nice to be back in the saddle again after far too long away. Damn family and work :D

ya, i was not sure if i can use word "windmill" for that what i think :)

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 23 Jan 2011, 10:51

Yeah, I guess Aerometer is more correct but I still call them windmills

and I have one in there now. Working on those pesky fence poles. I hate to start all over with them but I might just have to..

Added another shot with a different atmosphere. Gives kind of a clear and cold feeling.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 23 Jan 2011, 14:29

The fence post look ok to me now. Having the windmill right behind the
electrical wires is bothersome. I'm not sure the wiring enhances your scene.
You could make the windmill shorter, appearing to be further back as one solution.
The roof ridge isn't done right?

Your scene is coming along great as always!

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 23 Jan 2011, 14:45

Bob,
I thought the same thing about the Aerometer

Maybe I could just move the poles so they are off the screen and closer to the foreground so all you see are the shadows of the pole to the right and the wires spanning across the pathway.

Yes, house isn't done yet. Damn Vue doesn't have easy UVMapping (that I have found) like the UVMapper in TS.

Thanks for the encouragement..

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 23 Jan 2011, 15:39

Okay, I bet a number of you aren't going to like the lighting on this one.. I do!

To me it gives the feeling of an incoming storm after a brief melting..

I also moved the telephone poles and wires but you can still see the shadows of the wires across the pathway.

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 23 Jan 2011, 15:44

Steinie wrote:The fence post look ok to me now...

Yes I agree... Although my only complain about them is there is no snow on the posts tips yet. I think there should be some there. it would make the scene unearthly realistic.
It would be nice, if the particle snow gets stuck on the silo cladding seams, in the windowsill, on the roof, walls planks etc... but on the poles tips it's just must... I think.

btw: The new lighting is great. It's rare time when we can see CG Art on such level of subtleness as in your work tahnoak

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 23 Jan 2011, 17:03

Math Path wrote:
Steinie wrote:The fence post look ok to me now...
Yes I agree... Although my only complain about them is there is no snow on the posts tips yet. I think there should be some there. it would make the scene unearthly realistic.
It would be nice, if the particle snow gets stuck on the silo cladding seams, in the windowsill, on the roof, walls planks etc... but on the poles tips it's just must... I think.

btw: The new lighting is great. It's rare time when we can see CG Art on such level of subtleness as in your work tahnoak

Math Path... you are far too kind, but THANK YOU!

One of my criticisms of my own work is that I am unable to put what I think would be the ultimate finishing touches on my scenes (snow on roof, icicles, etc..) but I am going to give it a shot. I am typically not patient enough for trial and error but will see what I can do. I just need to buckle down and figure out how to do it. I might even do a little post production on this version and make a raging snow storm. We'll see.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 24 Jan 2011, 07:34

also pls make the tire paths rounded, now its like made from polyline, not looking realistic and its right on eyes - one of things i see in first seconds.

btw: the windmill is the one!

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 26 Jan 2011, 02:25

Cleaned up the pathway.. thanks for the suggestion Bitkar.

Also added some snow patches on the window sills, tractor, and fence post tops. Also placed some icicles hanging from the wire and window sill as well as the bottom of the tractor but you can't see it because of the shadow.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Jan 2011, 06:56

The sky and the light need a look more sunrise when i see the shadows on the grown.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 26 Jan 2011, 09:49

Marcel... keep in mind that the sun is relatively low in the sky during winter so even at 11 AM it is not very high and the shadows are long. Having said that, it is EARLY winter so maybe the sun could be altered a bit. Thanks for the recommendation.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Jan 2011, 11:39

The sun is low is what i said. But what is strange is the sky: the sun is from the right and low then the photo of the background don't match with this. You need clouds with shadow at left and light at right to enhance the effect of the entire scene. Also the sky is more clear at the horizon than the sky at the top. That don't match with the position of the sun. the best is to try different photo before you finish the scene.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » 26 Jan 2011, 17:52

I, in some way agree and don't with you Marcel. Living more nearer to the arctic circle I find the picture natural for a midday, about noon, scene. I have no doubt about the clouds but maybee I would have a more colder blue color to the sky. The color of the sky is like we have in the summer.

But if it's in the evening about 3 pm (In southern Sweden) I would have much more bluish shadows and reddish sunshine.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Jan 2011, 20:30

question of reality and art.

Here is a test with your sky. + dark at left and + bright at right to coincide with the position of the sky. Also i changed the color ( less green) and added a little more volume on the cloud to add depth on the scene. But sure it would better with a picture that would have the perfect shade and not what I tinkered.

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 26 Jan 2011, 21:16

How about an upside-down coffee can on the tractor exhaust pipe to keep the snow and rain out.
No snowplow blade?

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Jan 2011, 21:50

For this picture I agree that the sky should match the lighting better. (If you like this sky just flip the texture in Paint Shop or flip the plane it is on in TS.) For Tahnoak's style a certain amount of realism is needed, a large amount really, but the feel of the picture is where its value is.

Tahnoak, although he does not know it or is too modest to admit it, is an artist. His pictures express moods, emotions, stories, and captured moments of life. Expressing such things is more important that being completely real looking. Deliberately or intuitively using unreal features is often employed in art. For example, if it had a farmer arguing with his son then a sky that is reversed from the lighting could symbolically represent that and add to the picture's feeling of conflict.

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 26 Jan 2011, 22:34

Completely agree with Finis. Enough said...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Jan 2011, 23:16

I'm not sure that the different direction of light in the sky is a deliberate artistic purpose. we must ask the author why he did that before justifying. I am looking for realism only if it is relevant to the artistic aspect of a work. When I raised this point of view some time ago (remember the "why " and the "how" discuss), most people preferred the technical aspect. I did not insist because I felt not to be understood. I see that I am not the only one interested in this kind of discussion. and it is reassuring.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 27 Jan 2011, 00:43

Tahnoak the first work I saw you doing, was the old Alley scene, I just loved your work at the first sight!

And you gets better with the time, this is another masterpiece of yours! And it's amazing as you do this having a family and a work, things that I don't have as you yet.

So just to you to be aware of my worship over your art

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 27 Jan 2011, 04:02

This is indeed a very good piece of work. However, imo, there are 2 things that let it down and are holding it back from being a really great image.

The first is that the fence posts need to be darker. As they are, when I look at them they look like dry timber where as in reality the wood would be soaking wet due to the weather conditions.

The other thing is the quality of the sky/clouds. They lack clarity and depth which lend to the impression that you have just used a low-res image in the Background Effects Shader. In addition, using an image where you see the clouds scale all the way back to the horizon would give this image a far more dramatic look.

Hope this helps and keep up the good work.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Jan 2011, 07:02

nice to see you breech.
Use a photo as a background is often a thing misused. size of cloud, color, light and horizon need to be ok with the scene unless it is an artistic effect. Here the sky need improvment for an artistic effect as i said.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 27 Jan 2011, 10:13

Okay, WOW.. I had no idea that this little image would draw so much attention and I TRULY appreciate the support and suggestions. Unfortunately I don't have time to address each one individually (but you know that I will) until the weekend.

Thanks again for following along and helping look at things in different ways.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Jan 2011, 11:39

This may be the chance that it happened on this image.

Much debate because it is not clear when something is made for artistic effect or if it is a technical error. critics often become adversarial. but it is interresting and constructive. At least more enjoyable than reading a technical review only. It raises the standard of this forum.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 27 Jan 2011, 14:27

Great to see you back Breech ! Tahnoak the thing that srikes me is that the horizon of the cloud picture and the setup dont match...
you need an athmosphere that gets thicker along the horizon line also the clouds get smaller there too you need moreperspective in your athmosphere..
Peter

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » 27 Jan 2011, 15:29

About the fence posts. I find them natural. I think the temperature is below zero C. Frozen wood can be seemed to be very dry in apperiance. If the wood are laying flat on the ground there will be some ice and dark texture if it's soaked with water. A fence post will in it's upright position be more dry and therefore will have a more dry apperiance.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 27 Jan 2011, 16:19

marcel wrote:Here the sky need improvment for an artistic effect.

Yes!

You can get perspective for the clouds in many ways. First use a picture that has it and be sure the distant part of the picture is not below the horizon. If it is on a plane tilt the plane toward the camera. If it is a sky dome then flatten the dome like in my elegant bridge project. Paint Shop it if needed to adjust the picture to your needs.

Marcel, I haven't seen adversarial posts on this thread (or on most) ... just people having ideas, analyzing them, and sharing their knowledge.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Jan 2011, 16:35

Finis wrote:Marcel, I haven't seen adversarial posts on this thread (or on most) ... just people having ideas, analyzing them, and sharing their knowledge.

Due to my bad english i mean anything negative. Maybe the word was not appropriate. I mean different point of view ( ex: it is a real artistic effect or an error?). Google translate is not perfect.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 27 Jan 2011, 19:51

Yes we tend to look at the renderings here with a technical eye rather then
an artist one. I'm glad we are doing both now.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Jan 2011, 20:30

In fact the technical aspect was important for me when I was younger. Today I tend to watch only the artistic or symbolic. but I understand young people who enjoy studying it. although technology is constantly evolving but there is a time for learning and a time to realize. Technology is ephemeral, but good ideas are long lasting.

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 27 Jan 2011, 22:04

Hi,
I'm really glad that tahnoak didn't ban us from his thread

It's indeed very interesting discussion here. All your suggestions guys are even for experienced artists a true gold mine IMHO. I was in my young years a street painter sort of. You know these crazy guys with backpack full of chalk... The thing which was the most valuable for me, was direct feedback, which I could hear live as I worked. Great feeling.
I made an experiment with tahnoak's image. I repainted it a bit, trying to incorporate some of the hints posted here. I hope, tahnoak wouldn't mind this manipulation. If so please let me know. I would say many of those work good. Only the ideaa of spacekdet wont. ...The coffee can on the tractor exhaust pipe keeps falling down when the engine runs

I'm looking forward to progress on this image. I think it's worth to wait

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 28 Jan 2011, 04:41

Very nice, Math Path.

And as if tahnoak hasn't had enough people playing about with his image, here are a couple of, admitedly rough looking, mock-ups of what a different background image could do.

PS: Thanks Rayman; it's good to be back.

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