United3dArtists Archive

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 28 Jan 2011, 08:07

this wip become a SMC. i hope tahnoak appreciate it.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 28 Jan 2011, 10:45

i can olny say that breachblocks example2 should be colored to orange. Coz the color of sky would definatly influence to ground objects in real. This could look good.

anyway I think last original was good. I dont think the sky problem was that big :) but the finetuning is a work worth the time spent on it.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 28 Jan 2011, 12:37

Wow! Coming along VERY nicely, haven't checked in for a while

If you want to make a tractor for this scene, it should be very easy and low detail because you are not focusing on it in the foreground and can get by with a low poly model and a good texture... you should give it a try, it is a great learning experience opportunity

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 28 Jan 2011, 16:00

The problem is the snow has melted before the WIP is completed.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 01:53

Finis wrote:For this picture I agree that the sky should match the lighting better. (If you like this sky just flip the texture in Paint Shop or flip the plane it is on in TS.) For Tahnoak's style a certain amount of realism is needed, a large amount really, but the feel of the picture is where its value is.

Tahnoak, although he does not know it or is too modest to admit it, is an artist. His pictures express moods, emotions, stories, and captured moments of life. Expressing such things is more important that being completely real looking. Deliberately or intuitively using unreal features is often employed in art. For example, if it had a farmer arguing with his son then a sky that is reversed from the lighting could symbolically represent that and add to the picture's feeling of conflict.

Finis.. I do like the sky but I am certainly enjoying reading the other alternatives that people are providing with their samples based on my pic.

I appreciate the kind words.

I never really thought of myself as having a "style". I do try to infuse some emotion and maybe tell a story with my scenes. Most importantly I like to think that I provide the supporting role and the viewer visualizes and comes up with their OWN version of what they think is happening and why it is happening. I like things to look real but I also know that I am limited in the technology that I am using and my skill level. .

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 01:55

marcel wrote:This may be the chance that it happened on this image.
Much debate because it is not clear when something is made for artistic effect or if it is a technical error. critics often become adversarial. but it is interresting and constructive. At least more enjoyable than reading a technical review only. It raises the standard of this forum.

I agree completely Marcel. I never take criticisms personally (unless of course someone tells me I smell and dress funny)

and I appreciate suggestions because it tells me that people cared enough to put some thought into what might improve the scene.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 01:56

RAYMAN wrote:Great to see you back Breech ! Tahnoak the thing that srikes me is that the horizon of the cloud picture and the setup dont match...
you need an athmosphere that gets thicker along the horizon line also the clouds get smaller there too you need moreperspective in your athmosphere..
Peter

Peter,
Yes, I agree about the atmosphere. I have another one that I am working with but its still not giving me exactly what I want. I am trying to find a good picture from the web to give me some ideas. I would prefer the clouds have more definition and also be a bit darker sky. On those cold clear afternoons in winter the sky can be pretty darn blue.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 01:58

Finis wrote:
marcel wrote:Here the sky need improvment for an artistic effect.
Yes!

You can get perspective for the clouds in many ways. First use a picture that has it and be sure the distant part of the picture is not below the horizon. If it is on a plane tilt the plane toward the camera. If it is a sky dome then flatten the dome like in my elegant bridge project. Paint Shop it if needed to adjust the picture to your needs.

Marcel, I haven't seen adversarial posts on this thread (or on most) ... just people having ideas, analyzing them, and sharing their knowledge.

The sky I am using is a preset atmosphere within Vue. I am going to try and tweak it some to see what I can come up with. I am certainly looking for more definition in the clouds and probably reduce the haze at the horizon. On a clear cold winter day there is likely not going to be that much haze.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 02:03

Math Path wrote:Hi,
I'm really glad that tahnoak didn't ban us from his thread It's indeed very interesting discussion here. All your suggestions guys are even for experienced artists a true gold mine IMHO. I was in my young years a street painter sort of. You know these crazy guys with backpack full of chalk... The thing which was the most valuable for me, was direct feedback, which I could hear live as I worked. Great feeling.
I made an experiment with tahnoak's image. I repainted it a bit, trying to incorporate some of the hints posted here. I hope, tahnoak wouldn't mind this manipulation. If so please let me know. I would say many of those work good. Only the ideaa of spacekdet wont. ...The coffee can on the tractor exhaust pipe keeps falling down when the engine runs
I'm looking forward to progress on this image. I think it's worth to wait

Math Path.. I love the tweaks you made to the lighting of the scene. I like the smoke from the tractor too, though in my mind that old bucket hadn't run in years

No chance of banning folks from the thread.. I am not so proud as to think that everything I do is without need of some improvement

@spacekdet..
Coffee can on the exhaust, judging by the looks of the tractor I probably should have put a tarp over the darn thing. Guess I'll have to buy Bob (Steinie) a new tractor

Snow plow is an interesting idea though that blows my intention of having the tractor be just a bucket of rust right out of the water.. hmmmmm

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 02:05

Breech Block wrote:Very nice, Math Path.

And as if tahnoak hasn't had enough people playing about with his image, here are a couple of, admitedly rough looking, mock-ups of what a different background image could do.

PS: Thanks Rayman; it's good to be back.

Example 1.jpg

Example 2.jpg

Breech..
Great to see you again my friend. I like the way the clouds in the top one fill the space between the aerometer and the barn. The second one has a fascinating color scheme to it. That might be something to look at when/if I decide to tackle this scene at different seasons and/or times of the day.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 02:07

marcel wrote:this wip become a SMC. i hope tahnoak appreciate it.

Very much so marcel.. nice to know folks are interested enough to share their opinions.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 02:09

theuns wrote:Wow! Coming along VERY nicely, haven't checked in for a while

If you want to make a tractor for this scene, it should be very easy and low detail because you are not focusing on it in the foreground and can get by with a low poly model and a good texture... you should give it a try, it is a great learning experience opportunity

Thanks theuns... as you can tell the scene has come a long way from a couple of fence posts and some wire (back to the original scene). Steinie provided me with a tractor for the scene though I do hope to some day tackle a car/truck/tractor.. etc.. my problem is patience. I have so little time on the computer to do stuff that I hate to "waste" it learning something. I would rather be doing something.

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 29 Jan 2011, 02:33

It would probably be a plow blade in the back, something like this.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 09:55

interesting. I might be able to tackle that and just make it rusty and snow covered...thanks!!

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 15:25

Still tinkering with the atmosphere... thanks for all the awesome suggestions and examples.

Will try some post processing stuff too..

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 29 Jan 2011, 15:32

It's coming along nicely. My comment is that the snow looks a little powdery to me. I think the shadows are to harsh making it look less like snow. Maybe a little bit of glow to smooth it out a little bit.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 29 Jan 2011, 15:44

When the snow is not thick the ligth can pass through. You can simulate that with a very small quantity of luminance on the model side shader to do a softer effect. But that's fine if the snow starts to melt.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 29 Jan 2011, 16:44

clintonman wrote:It's coming along nicely. My comment is that the snow looks a little powdery to me. I think the shadows are to harsh making it look less like snow. Maybe a little bit of glow to smooth it out a little bit.

I am struggling with that as well clintonman.. some versions I find too much "gray" in the snow so I brighten it and then the scene looks washed out.. this is honestly the hardest time I have had with lighting a scene..

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 31 Jan 2011, 11:38

ya, snow would be better with less sharp bump. usually snow smooth shapes

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 31 Jan 2011, 18:45

clintonman wrote:It's coming along nicely. My comment is that the snow looks a little powdery to me. I think the shadows are to harsh making it look less like snow. Maybe a little bit of glow to smooth it out a little bit.

Good point, although the main difference between powder and snow is water and ice contained in snow. This cause snow to reflect the ambient light. Therefore shadows which we can see on the snow have always the color component of the sky. This can be observed on good winter landscape shots, but will be never seen on the photos of chalk or flour.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 08 Feb 2011, 02:15

Darn work getting in the way of my play time. Oh well. here is an update. Still tinkering with stuff. Added some snow piles, not sure I like them yet. Also added a snow plow on the front of the tractor.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 08 Feb 2011, 03:27

This is looking more and more realistic but this latest one has almost no mood or feel to it. That is unusual for your images.

Snow piles need something. I don't know what but they just don't look convincing.

The tractor tires look like rust. Shouldn't they be rubber? The whole tractor has the same rust look. Some parts would rust differently, not at all, or have some paint left.

Make each fence post a little different. Some would be more weathered, older, than others. The fence wire looks like it goes through the middle of the posts. It would be on one side or the other.

Sky looks too dark compared to the ground.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 08 Feb 2011, 11:18

Finis raises some very good points and he is right, there is definately something holding this image back. As well as correcting his points, IMO, the skyscape is still all wrong. This is due to something Steve/Weevil pointed out to me when he showed some off his fantastic ariel shots. He looked for natural lines in the cloud images and got his model to follow them. Applying this "theory" to your image, the fence posts give you a natural line to the horizon but the way I interpret the clouds, they follow the lines I have indicated in the image below:

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