United3dArtists Archive

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 06 Jul 2011, 02:11

For the SMC I modeled the Serpents head using Sculptris Alpha 6. I now plan on developing the entire torso and
creating a believable environment for him. I'll be using all my available tools for this one. I may even use Vue if I have time.

I plan on redoing the coloring and texure for this project although I do like the original.

The torso is being shaped using the grab and inflate tools.

Looking at the creature from all angles and focusing on the overall silhouette is a great help.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 06 Jul 2011, 02:33

I was wondering what happened to my eighth grade science teacher.

Looking good!

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 06 Jul 2011, 04:06

Nidhogg sounds Lovecraft-ian. Cthulhu's cousin's orthodontist.

Uh oh, Steinie master character maker with this sculpting tool ... we're gonna see great stuff.

I voted for cootie in the SMC (hard to pick with all those good ones) but this was my second favorite.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 06 Jul 2011, 15:01

Yet again comes a great steinie masterpiece.
Maybe i should join this one but no clue what to do.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 07 Jul 2011, 01:00

Thanks guys.
Hey anyone who wants to start another Sculptris WIP next to mine is more then welcome.
All creatures and characters are welcome. I'd love to see what you come up with Pugman.
Eighth grade science teachers I've seen fit into the "creature" category.

Any Ideas on how I would actually animate this guy if the need arises? Has anyone here tried to
animate a ZBrush model yet?

Updates coming soon.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 07 Jul 2011, 02:56

Steinie wrote:Any Ideas on how I would actually animate this guy if the need arises?

Messiah of course. How to ... well I haven't had time to delve into Messiah yet.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 07 Jul 2011, 04:19

animation: bones, morphs and a jiggle deformer for all that fat.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 07 Jul 2011, 12:44

jamesmc wrote:I was wondering what happened to my eighth grade science teacher.

Looking good!

you mean after the terrible accident you had with your "little experiment"......

If you want to use Vue then a good idea to animate it is using poser or daz studio and morph targets....
i dont know what you own....... but also truespace animated characters can be imported into Vue with Collada...
in the new version of vue you can import animated characters from Messiah with the Mdd file format too...
Peter

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 07 Jul 2011, 15:22

Vue imports Messiah animations! Dream team Modo-Messiah-Vue! Now to get enormous amounts of money to get Modo and Vue and enormous amounts of time to learn it all.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 07 Jul 2011, 23:43

RAYMAN wrote: If you want to use Vue then a good idea to animate it is using poser or daz studio and morph targets....
i dont know what you own....... but also truespace animated characters can be imported into Vue with Collada...
in the new version of vue you can import animated characters from Messiah with the Mdd file format too...
Peter

Peter,
Here are the software versions I own. Please tell me if I should upgrade any to get compatible versions and what formats to use between
the software packages.
I noticed that Vue 9 Esprit comes with a 3DImport module so it works with Poser. Is that one of your suggestions?

Finis,
What format does it need and what version Vue will import a Messiah animation?

Vue 7
Poser 7
Messiah Studio 5.0a 32bit
3D Coat 3.5
Photoshop CS3 Extended
UV Layout v2.05.01
Sculptris Alpha 6
MeshMixer 06
Argile 1.1.2
MOI 2.0
Silo 2.2 Pro
Hexagon 2
Camtasia Studio 3.0
Magix Movie Editor Pro 14
and of course
trueSpace 7.61
VRay 1.53
and for fun
Crysis 64

Also anyone else have suggestions please join in. The goal is to animate a Sculptris Character.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 08 Jul 2011, 00:22

I was reacting to Rayman's news:

RAYMAN wrote:in the new version of vue you can import animated characters from Messiah with the Mdd file format

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 08 Jul 2011, 00:30

I think RAYMAN posted that the new version (?) of Vue has MDD import which means you can use Messiah.

Since I know little about either, I'll defer.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 08 Jul 2011, 09:37

Steinie wrote:Peter,
Here are the software versions I own. Please tell me if I should upgrade any to get compatible versions and what formats to use between
the software packages.
I noticed that Vue 9 Esprit comes with a 3DImport module so it works with Poser. Is that one of your suggestions?

Finis,
What format does it need and what version Vue will import a Messiah animation?
.

Correect if you got Vue 7 and poser 7 thats a good way making animations since it translates both bones animations and morphs very well..
even the old import module imports poser 7 animations..no need for a new one..
I got the information from a newsletter that the new version of vue also imports MDD so that you can use Messiah too... but its not necessary
if you have Poser7.... only thing that isnt easy is skinning inside poser... but morphs are best in class..
Peter

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 08 Jul 2011, 09:46

Finis wrote:Vue imports Messiah animations! Dream team Modo-Messiah-Vue! Now to get enormous amounts of money to get Modo and Vue and enormous amounts of time to learn it all.

As you see some people already got some pieces of equipment and its wrong that you have to learn the whole application...
just use what you need..... like making morphs is plain easy inside Poser..... and Poser 7 are on the web for say 40 $ so its not realy breaking a bank.....
you dont need modo if you have the money ok but has nothing to do with the animations realy....
Thats why i said what have you got... no need to buy.....
I will be of help if you need to learn the few basic steps needed....
Peter

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 08 Jul 2011, 16:02

Thanks Rayman. I'll certainly search for your posts and ask for advice.

My goal in 3D tools isn't so much to accomplish a specific task but to assemble a small set of tools that work together well and, together or independently, can do most 3D things. So I am interested in learning much about each application in that tool set.

Modo-Vue-Messiah is a "dream team" due to cost. In reality of course I'll end up with free or cheap tools to do this. My first software migration goal is to learn Messiah's materials and renderer.

Back to Steinie's critter. I like how, in one picture, his arms sort of come out of his head.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 08 Jul 2011, 19:32

Here is a short step through how to do it......
You make your model inside sculptris and export it from there...
you make you uv map the way you are used to...
you import it into Poser and save it as a poser file...
you then export it as an obj with only morph target checked nothing else..
after that open it in Silo and make a morph with the softselection.. do not change the order of the polys nor
the polygon count thats the only thing you have to take care of.....
you then export it from Silo again and name it accordingly so that you find it
With poser open and the model selected under properties you load the morph
with the morph tab.....
give that morph a name and bingo a new tab apears under parameters...
you keyframe your animation with all the morphs that you made and
load it into Vue...
You might have to reload the texture of the model inside Vue but thats easy because the Uv´s always pass through...
realy simple
Peter

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 12 Jul 2011, 02:00

Thanks for everyone's ideas! I'll be trying out these methods soon.

A small update just to keep the WIP current. Started to shape the arms, hands/claws/ and or appendages.
Slowly molding into shape and proper position to fit in the scene.

I have lots of different projects going at the same time, however I really enjoy working on this one.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 13 Jul 2011, 01:55

This looks versatile. He could be made menacing, comical, or friendly.

Dragneye · Post by **Dragneye** » 13 Jul 2011, 04:03

Nice job Steinie. From the looks of this it seems you're like a fish in water with this new style of modeling.
I noticed you have a long list of stuff but no zbrush. Just downloaded Sculptris; will see what it's like. Just a VERY watered down version of zbrush but love that one doesn't have to worry abt the mesh At All.

froo · Post by **froo** » 13 Jul 2011, 17:39

I agree, Dragneye.
Now, I gotta know; how did the software engineer do it?
I am really curious about the math and logic. How it works.
But, I guess I won't know that.

Lookin good Steinie!

Froo

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 15 Jul 2011, 02:51

Finis:
Comical?, Yes he laughs while he eats you

Dragneye:
I love this program, as you can tell.
Froo,
Yep, the coding for this must have taken a genius.

Another small update as I work in some fine details.

Hey Ranger, where are you? I know where your at...
creating another cool creature too!

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 15 Jul 2011, 15:13

This is a pretty cool link where you can watch the artist create each creature. Make sure to explore the different pages if this type modeling interest you.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread ... ge=1&pp=15"

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 17 Jul 2011, 05:07

Modeling of this Creature is done. Off to the Paint Shop...

trueBlue · Post by **trueBlue** » 17 Jul 2011, 15:03

Awesome!

froo · Post by **froo** » 17 Jul 2011, 16:15

haha that's what I said just before reading your post trueBlue!

Looks fantastic Steinie!

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 17 Jul 2011, 17:19

First it was LottaTeeth and other creations.

Now, it's Nidhogg - Another distrubing image from the inner recesses of Steinie's mind that will haunt my nigtmares!

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 17 Jul 2011, 20:41

Hey I think you guys like it!!! That is a booster for me.

A big Thanks! I'll get Lotta Teeth to personally give all of you a
big wet one.

Like I mentioned before I've moved the creature into Sculptris
Paint. I am working out the color scheme, laying in the base colors then
bringing out the details. The face is almost done. I'll use that color scheme with
the rest of the model.
As an early test I used Froo's AWESOME object importer to test the results in trueSpace (workSpace side).
Works great!

p.s. I'm really glad seeing others working on their own great looking projects too!
Maybe this project will motivate others too.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 17 Jul 2011, 21:11

awesome Steinie, really coming along nicely... downloaded the latest version but haven't given it a try yet, need to spend some time with it and would love to do some stuff like you're doing...

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 18 Jul 2011, 02:08

The finished textured Model of Nidhogg.
Next will be the supporting cast of thousands...

Onward.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 18 Jul 2011, 02:27

Awesome and done with lightning speed.

How many polygons when you export it? What does the wire frame in TS look like?

froo · Post by **froo** » 18 Jul 2011, 15:12

Very nice Steinie!
I am glad the OBJ importer works so well!

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 18 Jul 2011, 15:26

The wire frame on ZBrush or Sculptris models look like a mess since they are so dense. I can get
this model down to around 200,000 polys before the details deteriorate. (It was up to 1,000,000 before using the Poly Reduction)
I wanted to stick with Sculptris 100% for modeling and texures for this model. I hope to squeeze everything into trueSpace for the scene creation. We will see.
Thanks for the compliments!
So the next Character for this scene will be...? Stay tooned.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 18 Jul 2011, 23:44

Re-topology - get it down to about 8500 polys - normal map

You can do it!

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 19 Jul 2011, 00:52

James or anyone who might know.
I understand retopology but I am not sure about using the
Normal Map on the retopology model. Doesn't the UV map get messed up or have to be redone?
Any input here would be a big help. I'm always looking for ways to advance.
I have listed my software that I can utilize earlier in this thread.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 19 Jul 2011, 02:33

Steinie wrote:James or anyone who might know.
I understand retopology but I am not sure about using the
Normal Map on the retopology model. Doesn't the UV map get messed up or have to be redone?
Any input here would be a big help. I'm always looking for ways to advance.
I have listed my software that I can utilize earlier in this thread.

Yeah, UV will need to be redone, cause you are putting a new surface on the mesh.

What it does (depending on the program) and idea of retopology is to make the mesh less complex. Using the highly subvidivided model, one "BAKES" the maps (normal or displacement). I prefer normal maps.

The baked maps on the lower subdivided mesh then gives the appearance of a denser mesh, but in the case of the normal map, it's just light tricks.

Anyway, that's my explanation.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 19 Jul 2011, 03:18

Here's a Website that talks about retopology in Zbrush.

View parts 2 and 3

Blah, lost the url...
Found it!

http://www.thegamerreport.com/2009/01/z ... orial.html"

An option if you have Zbrush is to use the Decimation Master Plugin.

Here's the Webpage for Decimation Master and UV plugin
http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/"

Not entirely clear to me, but once the HD mesh is decimated, you can save it and then:
import the low res mesh into the high res mesh, you'll be asked if you want to transfer details, click YES, the imported mesh Will auto-subdivide and the high res details will be transferred. At this stage, you have the capability to refine the projection (an important capability that could not have been done with ZMapper) or even continue sculpting the mesh, and when satisfied, proceed with the usual process of generating displacement, color or normal maps.

Decimation Master Documentation:
http://download.pixologic01.com/Plugins ... tation.pdf"

More reading on Decimation master here:http://www.pixologic.com/docs/index.php ... eometry.3F

Random Advice from a user on a forum using Deformation Master:

Step one, decimate your model. As everyone has said, 700k is going to be much more than you could possibly need for this, you could probably decimate to something closer to 50k, but as long as you have your sillhouette it doesn't matter.

Take the decimated obj into topogun or whatever you prefer to retopo in. At this point you go over it, and export the retopoed mesh. Depending on what you do, this will probably be around 10k, maybe higher or lower if you're doing low poly or film respectively.

At this point you can go to zbrush, go to your original non decimated mesh with all of the detail, append your retpoed mesh. I would subdivide it once or twice, project all to make sure it's conforming well. I find that projecting earlier on once or twice gives less errors. Then subdivide to a level you're comfortable with to capture all the detail, and project all again. Then go to your lowest subdivision level and export a normal map.

---------------------------------
3DCoat Stuff

An older video for 3Dcoat, on making a normal map for a low poly model that has been retopologized and UV'd.

http://www.3d-coat.com/play_video.php?l ... Normal.mp4"

Trying to find the newer one that has auto-retopo.

Notes on Retopology in 3Dcoat:

- Non-connected objects are supported.

- Import you objects directly for AUTOPO from the "File/Import" menu. It will automatically close holes, convert to voxels, and create a practical, organized mesh.

- AUTOPO automatically cleans up any non-manifold topology to avoid any subsequent problems.

- Total number of triangles, quads and n-gons are visible in the Retopo Room. Each polygon type can be individually selected, for clarification and identification.

- Vertex picking in retopo room has been improved.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 19 Jul 2011, 11:48

Wow that is a lot of information for me to cover!
Thanks James!

When they say "go to the lowest subdivision level and export a normal map"
Is that your model with the most polys or least? Wouldn't you want a normal
map coming from the most dense model? (Which I think would be the highest level with the most details)

See this is all new territory for me...

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 19 Jul 2011, 13:43

Steinie wrote:Wow that is a lot of information for me to cover!
Thanks James!

When they say "go to the lowest subdivision level and export a normal map"
Is that your model with the most polys or least? Wouldn't you want a normal
map coming from the most dense model? (Which I think would be the highest level with the most details)

See this is all new territory for me...

Yeah, that's correct - high to low.

I was getting confused and standing right up next to myself.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 19 Jul 2011, 15:49

Sooo I should not use a displacement map if I plan on rendering with VRay since I assume it cannot do displacement? I sort of remember it handling Normal Maps, correctly?

The other issue I see is that my creature has to be re-textured since the UV map needs to be replaced. Sculptris and ZBrush make crumby native UVMaps which cannot be worked on later.
So if I re-topolized the Sculptis model a new uv map and a texture map needs to be created.

All mistaken statements above are open for discussion.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 19 Jul 2011, 15:52

Steinie wrote:Sooo I should not use a displacement map if I plan on rendering with VRay since I assume it cannot do displacement? I sort of remember it handling Normal Maps, correctly?

The other issue I see is that my creature has to be re-textured since the UV map needs to be replaced. Sculptris and ZBrush make crumby native UVMaps which cannot be worked on later.
So if I re-topolized the Sculptis model a new uv map and a texture map needs to be created.

All mistaken statements above are open for discussion.

If it were me, I would try the decimate plug-in in Zbrush (3.5R and above) and see what happens.

If you have no plans to animate, I wouldn't worry too much about making it a compliant game-style mesh.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 19 Jul 2011, 15:53

Good advice, Thanks again.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 19 Jul 2011, 19:19

Here is a Material Creation Tool for Sculptris or ZBrush

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=92157"

Video demo without sound:
http://www.vimeo.com/14030320"

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 21 Jul 2011, 23:53

Another classic Steinie character is born.

I must really knuckle down and get into this area of modeling as bringing something to life is where the art is IMO.

3dfrog · Post by **3dfrog** » 06 Aug 2011, 15:15

I love this character. Great Work Steinie

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 08 Aug 2011, 13:59

Cool work as usual Steinie !
Just one thing makes me curious how did you get a picture of my mother in law ?

Nidhogg Nagar's Court / Sculptris and trueSpace

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