United3dArtists Archive

We all know that the license of Caligari with Lightworks expired, so they can't release the model side anymore, so let's discuss about the Lightworks render, the cause of model side death...

I'll heard some analyses before I do mine...

Cya

The only reason is money. No company would like to buy a license for a free product but modelside was dead the day Caligari choose to do the workspace without Lightwork and I think it was before Microsoft buy Caligari. It was long planned. The crisis has nothing to do.

You're right...
Anyway what is your analysis about the Lightworks renderer itself?

I don't agree at all, workSpace had VRAy. If you study Roman's post during the year
you could tell that the MicroSoft deal came much later. Roman was still talking about
the future well into the development of trueSpace.
What difference does all this make now? Lightworks was a nice rendering engine but
the original plan for workSpace all along was for sharedSpace and the Web. When the sales
weren't there Roman probably looked for other options. If he had waited Caligari probably would
have closed their doors long before.
Would of, Could of, Should of.
Move on.

Lightworks is a nice render, I have a lot of fun with it. But it haven't render with photorealistic look even if I try, I can almost reach, but I can't totally. Also it's poor at light options...
In my vision of 3D I must use something like Vray, but I can't so I need to use lightworks but how can I fly with an car engine? I'm learning yafaray but the principal problem is the UI what makes the learning process too slow, but much more cheap and accessible than Vray that even aren't for sale today.

Steine: workspace, Vray are off topic about the question of leonregis. It is about only the license of Caligari with Lightworks. I think modelside was destined to disappear since the first version of TS7. Modelside was only to keep a compatibility with old version. Microsoft and the crisis has just reduced the time and avoid ending the workspace. It is my opinion since TS7.0. Workspace and sharedspace are another soft. And the error was to think it was an update of Truespace. Why impose a different use for all those using TS? For my work, sharedspace has no utility. And Caligari has removed my work tool without asking my opinion. Only professional can understand that. Not those who use TS for fun.

Marcel is right about the predicted death, but I think that Lightworks would migrate to the workspace as standard render, no? Since that Chaos stoped produce Vray to TS, and lightworks was doing his function.

Cya

I think Lightworks would not migrate to the workspace. It was not the object.
Because the cost of vray, the render engine is used by professionnal and professionnal don't use Truespace. Because the lack of user witch can buy vray, they stopped it. Only a problem of money as lightwork.

the simple analasys of 3d in general tells me.... dont look back in 3d .
The whole industry is progrssing rapidly and what is the latest and best today is history tomorrow.
there a whole boatload of other possibilities other then lightworks today biased and unbiased or even realtime.
Lets use what we have and or move on ...
You can still get Lightworks if you want to and a much newer version
Truespace is on the way out not Lightworks !

I will continue to use the modelside for several years and then go look elsewhere. Currently, no one can know which software will be the good one in a few years. My priority is to be effective. use a new software is a significant investment when I must take the work everyday. for a company, to learn a new soft cost 10X the price of the soft. The cost of a soft is not the real problem. It's cheaper to change employees trained on new software and hardware. Therefore it is difficult to make a long career in the same company today. That is why i work alone. And I am happy to do that.

marcel wrote:I will continue to use the modelside for several years and then go look elsewhere. Currently, no one can know which software will be the good one in a few years. My priority is to be effective. use a new software is a significant investment when I must take the work everyday. for a company, to learn a new soft cost 10X the price of the soft

While I understand that you want to use the software for many years to come which isnt a bad decision I dont share the idea of starting to learn something new in a few years from now simply because your loosing precious time to learn something new already. in a few years from now when Truespace no longer works on the new computers you would already be pretty good in something else. but that´s my take
you can see and do it differently.I just dont like to rely on something dead.....
Even if its free and difficult to learn like Blender

RAYMAN wrote:

marcel wrote:.I just dont like to rely on something dead.....

A soft is dead for me only when I can't do what i want. The best way to know what is good for oneself is to have several soft on his computer. The soft you use most often is the soft you need, even if others are better. Important is to know they exist to compare. It is a totally different method than for pleasure.

A soiftware is dead when i no longer starts up or crashes until the point that you can no longer use it on your computer.
and i tell you that thats no more pleasure at all. I would stop using a software when ite ceases to operate.
same with my photographic equipment ... I no longer use the 3 mpx cameras i use 31 Mp digital backs because I owe my
clients the best I can get and believe me they see the difference. I lost a few clients at the begiining of this century due to
to low quality of my digital gear at that time 8 i just didnt like to shoot filmany more) and i wont do that again. Clients see the difference. I dont always have to have the latest but if you fall back much behind your competition YOU will feel it ....

RAYMAN wrote: I lost a few clients at the begiining of this century due to low quality of my digital gear at that time 8 i just didnt like to shoot filmany more) and i wont do that again. Clients see the difference. I dont always have to have the latest but if you fall back much behind your competition YOU will feel it ....

The difference between you and me in that you need a final product (your photo) and you need good hardware. My work is to show idea even if they are not finalized as photorealistic. I could even use a pencil and paper (no need update)
I use TS only because I'm comfortable and that frees me mind to devote myself to research. It takes a fair balance between the tools and freedom to undertake. Balance is different for everyone and depend of our job. A lot of soft I try are for fun because I like technology but when i work for my job, i am not the same man. TS modelside is one of these soft witch can be useful for me in both case.
ps: what 31 Mp digital do you use?

Well to the digital Camera its a Hasselblad H3 DII 31 MP.....

With the 3d software I totally understand your viewpoint because basically your a designer
and you get paid for your designs... the renders that you make are illustration.
But still I wouldnt wait until Truespace stops to work and then start with something next . If I were you i´d look at working with
something on top of what you are using now so that your transition will be very smooth in the future.
Even if you dont want to spend money you can start getting good at using Blender just for the worst case of no longer being able to start up TS.
I have the slight feeling that Blender will be pretty good also in 5 years from now and also pretty much easier to use then today.
Fact is that if you start learning a software 5 years earlier then you will be 5 years better at it in 5 years from now.
I am also learningBlender too and its easier then its reputation.

I have not decided yet what soft I'll use but it will happen gradually. There are soft like moi dedicated to the nurbs that I like. But is the animation that will guide my choices for the main soft. I think do more animation in the future. As I said money is not the problem, I prefer to buy a soft if I can save time to learn with it (and better if it is in french, it is difficult to learn in english for me). I think to be ready in one or two years for the choose. I use the same photo editor since 10 years and not photoshop installed in my computer. Maybe TS still have some good years. My job's best tool is my experience. I depends less on technology than other professional as photo, web site,...
But we are straying from the topic of Lightworks. Sorry leonregis

Sunny Beach day, sorry to not reply here...
No probs Marcel, I always enjoy those titans epic conversation, BTW I have the same point of view of Marcel, since that I use it for fun but still want an photorealistic render but LW is amazing because his simplicity and fast renders, I learned it really fast, the UI is perfect. Anyway I'll start learning Blender when it becomes more friendly, I need to look at the future because I'm pretty young, even not working but we never now if we will need it. RAYMAN do you have 32 MP camera, OMG you are a profession, right? That's too much...

Thanks and Cya
Please now try to stay on topic.

Yup leon thats my job.... thats where I earn my money ....

I think if you are worried about a base renderer for truespace standalone, you should try yafaray. The demise of truespace was bizarre, especially considering how many loyal followers Caligari had. However, I've been thinking, and if there is a positive, it's that new users don't have the confusion of having to solve the modeler/ workspace jigsaw puzzle.

When (hopefully) I finally get my art site going, I might have a crack at a workspace only setup, and see what's possible. With yafaray, froo's obj/ fluids importer, and some judicious post work - truespace is still a capable rendering tool (especially when you consider that 90% of what's seemingly out there is product visualization). This comes down to the community/ third-party participation in truespace which is stellar, and always has been.

Lightworks (and 6.66 in general) is still a great renderer for the users who are from the tinkerer's age, like myself, and I will be using until I can't physically use it anymore. I think that will be a long time..........

The life that is left in TS for me is for work that I will do purely for personal purposes. For that, most of my rendering will be on the modelside using Lightworks simply because I have most of the plugins for modelside and they help me a great deal with creating new shaders when I need them.

I asked one of the Caligari staff directly about Lightworks integration into Workspace. I can't remember when I asked, though I believe it was around the time I was trying to find a way to call the lightworks dll Directly from Workspace, without going through Model side.

The answer was, only one instance of Lightworks could be included in a single trueSpace instance. This meant, as long as Model / 6.6 was part of trueSpace, Lightworks would reside on the Model side. When Workspace was 'complete' enough to stand on its own, the idea was to have a trueSpace Workspace edition only, with Lightworks, WithOut Model side.
Unfortunately trueSpace development was cancelled prior to that development.

We still cannot call Lightworks directly from workspace, because no Lightworks interface functions have been exposed. At least, as far as I know. Although, we can call Lightworks From Workspace, Through Model side (using a Bridge command). I have that little plugin, LWfromWS.rsx for that. And trueBlue has a script for doing the same thing.