United3dArtists Archive

why there are not many women who are interested in 3d modeling? Since the Nintendo Wii, there are more girls who are interested in video games because there's something else that violent games. And even the old play . what should be done to get girls interested in 3D modeling? It is definitely a male universe? Is this world too technical? Lack of interface more human?

I'm not a teacher or parent...

I think that woman in IT (Information Technology) are growing very fast, that's good because they have an special talent with details and a different point of view than the mens. I appreciate they because of that (and other reasons ), I hope and I think that in some years we will see more woman at 3d modeling...

Cya

I am a father of 2 girls (10 and 16) who both love to sit and watch Dad make 3d things. My eldest is in Grade 10 and taking a design course (Maya) in a class with 3 other girls and 25 guys. My 10 year old is teaching her classmates how to write scripts and create storyboards. Dad will get around to coding the game later .

The gender bias is partly the male dominated aspect of the technology trade and as strange as it may seem many women do not want to work around men especially when the men act like idiots around them. I also find that women tend to have a more balanced view of life than many men so careers that require the time commitment similar to IT based careers are not desired by women for that reason.

I do fear that the most compelling reason is the continuation of social attitudes toward women in roles other than domestic ones as the main culprit.

I managed a development group of nearly 200 and the majority of my female employees were business analysts and support staff. There were 7 ladies programming in one city and 2 in the other. The "other" city culturally was still a male dominated workplace but it was changing ... slowly, but changing.

As time passes I think things will even out a bit more but I do not expect the ratio to ever be near 50/50.

I don't believe that the complexity of the subject is an argument that needs to be addressed. Women's minds are quite capable of complex tasks and higher learning. More likely that women have less income for pursuing education so they are more likely to focus on less expensive occupations or the much more expensive ones (e.g. medicine) taht promise greater rewards.


Marcel, I have to hand it to you... you do start some interesting discussions....

v3rd3 wrote:The gender bias is partly the male dominated aspect of the technology trade and as strange as it may seem many women do not want to work around men especially when the men act like idiots around them. I also find that women tend to have a more balanced view of life than many men so careers that require the time commitment similar to IT based careers are not desired by women for that reason.

v3rd3, you are absolute right. No doubt's!

Marcel, many thanks you are opening really great debates here!

Hahahahaha..... I don't think I could start a thread with a more controversial set of (potentially) loaded questions if I were paid to! Hahahahaha!!!

Rather than share my views on why it seems to be this way, I think I'll point out that a great many female 3D Modelers do exist but not so many in the trueSpace Community. A long close look at the number of 3D Modeling Vendors in the Renderosity and Daz Marketplaces should serve to demonstrate rather clearly that a great many female 3D Modelers not only exist and have extraordinarily focused 3D Modeling talents, but their focus in their related training is usually tied directly to a very clear profit motive and a very carefully thought through market analysis.

In general, (uh oh.... here we go... thanks Marcel, lol) I would have to say that from my experience (most) women tend to be far more conscious of and concerned about financial security at all times than men as a whole... and as such, to have (most) women consider "3D Modeling" as a viable career option they must see a very clear, direct, and substantial R.O.I. (return on investment) path for the time and money they might invest accordingly. If such a path is not immediately evident, such a career is very likely to escape their inherently focused consideration accordingly.

That said....

to answer your specific question:

"what should be done to get girls interested in 3D modeling? "

I suggest making VERY clear some real world verifiable examples of existing direct paths from novice (entry level) modeler through talented (time and money invested) modeler making VERY good income from their career. Such examples need not necessarily be female, although there are abundant examples of female modelers making a very substantial income through selling their 3D Models at Renderosity and Daz, which is inspiring given that these outlets charge roughly 50 percent of gross sales on average.

I wont get into the parallels between Barbie and Ken and Poser, lol.... but there is that too I suppose, lol.

- nuf said !

I failed miserably for almost 50 years to get girls interested in me and now I should spend the rest of my life
gettingthem interested in 3d ! ?
No serious now I actually spent the last month helping 2 of my (girl) friends to understand and use Open draw....
I think women can do that equally well ( look at Eagles cool work) i guess they just use different forums...
that brings me to the next question... Where is Butterpaw ?Has anyone heard of her recently ?

I hope the girlfriend of rayman like to learn 3d soft!
I notice that some trades like the song or the actors seem to be more accessible to women. In fact, this is not entirely true: the beauty is important (and more for women) even if the talent is necessary. For a long time women have achieved certain professions with their beauty because men do not give them the same opportunities. and they showed their talents. Now they no longer need to use their beauty when they have talent. it's a good thing. But in most of the creative arts, there is much to do. There are not many famous women in painting and sculpture. Even the trades who should have a feminine sensibility (as high fashion) is dominated by men (mostly gay, which shows the usefulness of a more feminine sensibility). Finally, the technical jobs are becoming more readily available to women than the creative arts. we might have thought that creative arts was the first fight they win. it is only seemingly.
ps: it is possible that I did not say what I think because of translation problems in English. I do not want to sound macho because of an error from google translate.

TamTam, Heidi, Witch, Butterpaw, Eagles, to name a few all had great input
and submitted nice artwork but they have gone silent. I'm not sure
why but wish they all would get interested in 3D again. Nice to have viewpoints from both
sexes, nationalities, age groups, talent levels and backgrounds.
It is the mix that I find interesting.

In my view even today they're overlooked, sometime ago if I remember well, Obama put a law to make the salaries of the woman be equal to the men, ie, they're receiving less than men and producing equally or even more. It still happen in other countries and here at Brazil, sadly =/

I agree with marcel too.

Cya

very intersting thread. I try to follow and i hope my english is good enough to tell my point of view.

I ask myself why i'm so interested in 3D. The answer is: To create anything new from scratch - out of nothing - and to show the result other people and to get a positive reply and, with luck, a slap on the shoulder: "good work man"

Like in older day's the "man's role" was to build the home and house for the family. In 3D it is the same but just virtual. And this is the point in my eye's. The most woman, i think, are very interested in 3D but just for absorb the story or to delight the beautiful artwork.

Woman are not so visual like man. They tell story's and listen to storys (most of the time on the phone). Man's live to see a story. In other words: woman talk or read a book, man will watching movies.

If a woman is intersted in creating anything mostly they do that with physical things. Handicraft work, sewing, knitting etc. They need here work holded in the hands, because they will give there work back to the "real" comunity - mostly the family which will have tons of cardigans - and not just to resume a positive feedback.

Conclusion: for a man it is enough to here from time to time: "good work man". A woman needs this often by showing here that you LOVE her selfmade cardigan "beautiful my dear, beautiful (but a bit scratchy btw.)"

..........but this is just theory - my theory

In the U.S. we have a saying: "I'll take the 5th" I decline to reply to this thread on the grounds that the replay may incriminate me, with my wife... Just kidding.

It is good to see more women in the industry they do truely bring a different veiw point to it all. it will be a generation or two I think before it really starts to take off but there are the few now blazing a path for all that will follow.

3dvisuals dude wrote:Hahahahaha..... I don't think I could start a thread with a more controversial set of (potentially) loaded questions if I were paid to!

I will pay you one cent to start a more controversial thread.

RAYMAN wrote:Where is Butterpaw ?

Yeah! Butterpaw is really cool. We need her. I'll add that to the "Whatever happened to" thread. Whatever she is doing now I hope everything is great for her.

If there are significantly fewer women than men in 3D, and I think there are, it is primarily because of a very simple reason: men and women are different. Women are interested in different things and have different abilities. This is not to say that there are no other factors but, at least in America and similar countries, they are minor compared the to differences biologically built in to men and women.

Individual preferences and abilities vary of course and there will be some women interested and skilled in 3D. I say welcome, just as I would to anyone else.

Design Devil think virtual work is the continuity of what we do in real life? possible. Thousands of years of prejudice eventually make us believe that we do not have the same capabilities. Most people think men is more material and women more sensitive. If that were true, women dominate the arts. today the man will remain dominant. he complimented the woman to apologize his behavior. There is nothing genetic but a cultural problem. As Finis said: men and women are different. Possible too. But is it the reason that there are more men in 3d world? 3d would be more masculine? I don't think. Teachers and parents can change this because where are all material and sensitive at the same time. i hope to see more women and girls in this forum in the future.

I'll have a jump in on this

A lot of the gender biasy starts at a very early age in general. Boys are naturally drawn towards moving parts and shapes, hence why they play with things like trucks, whereas girls take a larger liking to human interaction, dolls and so on, perhaps the natural "Mother" instinct plays a part? But then on top of that parents help that gender split and stereotype along as well, so the thought sticks that boys with toys, girls with dolls. That's why girls "mature" quicker, because from an earlier age they have conversations, scenarios and learn how to interact with others quicker through dolls and inviting their friends round for parties, social interaction, whereas boys take a little longer because the extent of which they play with their toys are "NEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWWWN PHSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS PFPFPFPFPFPFPFPFF PEW PEW PEW". Boys sort of pick that notion up and run with it, and all of a sudden we've got computers, planes, cars and so on.

That may all stick as life goes on, and because hard surface modelling, mechanical modelling and things like that are the easiest things to get started in 3D, not all girls like that. And it goes back to moving parts again, the computer is the best example of that, a very big "Boys toy". I fear saying "it's how each genders brain is formed" because that might seem like I'm saying "boys are smarter". Yes but no, boys have a bigger grasp of the technology side, physics, science, quicker, girls have the people skills and a good general knowledge enough to apply it to the real world, and generally, girls do better in english and maths than boys. So in a sense it's harder for girls to learn these things, but if they DO learn they will far surpass the boys knowledge. But the stereotype of "geek girl" or "girl gamer" is enough to put some off. What with z-brush and more powerful tools being involved, there's now much more than one way way to model to suit everyone's needs.

This does apply for a lot of things as well, female racing drivers, female pilots, heck, even female truckers or forklift drivers. It's a very "male" society due to the increase of technology and sooner or later, everyone, not just girls adapting to the "boys way of thinking" is going to adapt to the other gender's way of thinking or doing.

Lol.....

I think it is all very basic.... we all "give birth to" our 3D Creations as 3D Modelers, but as men we have a distinct disadvantage in that process because the females of all species tend to instinctively plan ahead very carefully on exactly "where" they will give birth to anything, and generally do so before any conception begins. Looking at that correlation from a strictly marketing / sales perspective, as I tend to do, it has been my normal experience that the women employed in this industry tend to be extremely focused on objectives before they even begin any projects whatsoever, which is usually not the case with men I must admit.

So where are all the female 3d modelers?

...here is a visual map I just whipped up for this thread to help you all in your search for them! Hehehehe!

**click for the full-sized version**

May be a new pink board style for the forum and more smilies with heart, flower,...

Hello 3dvisuals dude!

This reply is not to your last one but the one before. I can see that you hit an interesting point here. Why is it so, that some 3D fans must do their work during the late hours, a little bit secretly or so.

The answer is in your text, 3dvisuals dude. The most of the users and creators are male. We males are rather much controlled by females, which is not at all bad. If they do not understand (read see the economical point or purpose of our work) how they could ever think something positive of that. We should be able to create 3D openly in day light. It should be the common interest (family's).

Let's make something for this.

Norppa

Very interesting question.

I have pupils aged between 13 and 16 years of age and it's more boys who choses textile handicrafts than girls who choses wood and metal handicraft. Girls seems more afraid of hard technical things. My experience are that both boys and girls find it interesting to do handicraft but boys handicraft can extends in life to more advanced toys.(Small boys: cheap toys Big boys: expensive toys) If you are interested in textile you cant go further in the same way.

For example: I myself build model planes then I was young and now I'am a glider pilot in a Club there we have the same discussing about the same problem: How to get more girls to be glider pilots. Among about a 100 members there are a few girls flying.

What is really the thing that makes this difference? I havent a clue.

About sitting late at the computer. I have a tendency to become stuck at the computer. Mayby computer alcoholics. Its now very late and I should have gone to bed a lot earlier for beeing in best form for tomorrow work.

I think males definitely have a need for a "terminal" fix more than the ladies but the next generation will see that change.

The evolution of equality is slow but definite and I have no doubt that we will evolve to the point where our capabilities are only limited by our biology and not the prejudices of society.

I am in the position of being both a teacher and a parent. My youngest (10) is into girly things like dolls and the sims. She has no interest in 3D stuff. My eldest (13 ) is great at Desigh Technology (on the gifted and talented list), is amazed at what Dad does but doesn't really like to get into the CAD side of things.

Of my pupils, boys are more into it coming from a gaming background where girsl see it more as a chore. Having said that, they make better composed and rendered images while boys think it is great that they were able to model any intimate body part....then show their friends and snigger a lot...and they are the A Level students!!

Most people think that girls and boys are different but should have the same opportunities. However it is true that we are all influenced by our sex in one way or another from our birth. Is our education. I wonder what we would be if it did not differ. Our society might be less enthusiastic. May be fairer but more boring. The best thing is to find a balance in all this. In nature, animals are often dominated by females. may be the men are afraid in that possibility .

All of this really brings up the question of Nature vs Nuture. Which has been asked for years about Criminals an why they do what they do. Were they born that way or was it their upbringing that made them that way.

The same can be said for male vs female.

There are a lot of feminine males, and mascaline females, that were raised along the sex lines, but still turn out feminine or masceline. Goes to the point of nature making someone that way, but not just along the boy/girl lines, it can cross over.
But, if those groups are the xtreme, then there should be an abundance in the middle that are not overly feminie or overly masceline, that are affected by the way they were raised.

The answer must be in the study of male and female brains to see if they work differently without regard to its environment. The problem is that the brain is built at the same time as we grow and that the study would be biased because the brain develops, taking into account these constraints education. It is not a "natural brain". Most female animals are more aggressive as they protect their young. This makes them stronger and dominant. humans have changed the natural functioning since men have become protective then dominant. The woman has weakened. there still existed some primitive peoples with dominant females a few years ago. Today the woman does not need the same protection of men, they takes their natural place. Finally, nature always wins.
But we are moving away from the question of the 3d

I see some documentaries about genius and I realized that genius are not special people but trained people, when you start to learn something with 3 years old is encouraged until 18 through your childhood you will be a genius! Why I'm saying that? Is because we all can be a genius but that's unfair because we can't choose, so I prefer learn normally through the right age. But if you try to teach 3D modeling to your daughter when she is young (10, 12) she will like and be good at it. It's a question of parents desire, most of them want that his daughter be a good lawyer, analyst, seller, etc... IT and other techs are not include, but that's changing as everybody saying! Hope that change come fast, but I don't think so... maybe one whole century to reach the equality at the jobs.

Cya

Being relatively new to the whole 3D thing all I can see is that every Saturday morning my 6 year old comes downstairs and sits in my lap and watches me build stuff. She loves to do it and I am hoping that it will stick with her and when she is old enough to understand the concepts and focused enough to do her own research that she will be interested in this as well.

Why aren't there more females in 3D? Because we don't understand it. I wish I could do better...

Welcome WickedWitchOfTheWeb. We may believe that it is done by a man.
Yes a car can be sexy! Very good model.

I greats you with a WELCOME!!!(red for love to all you women)

Is this topic a 3D issue? I think so. Thrue investigations (in sweden) both women and men want's mixed 50/50 at the working places. It makes the work more pleasant. I agree. We have a different angle on things and this is good for the whole community.

The 3D enviroment (DAZ for example) are full with well "equiped" women. Are these women the cleaver women we meet in the real world? No! It wold be different and more interesting if more women takes part in the 3d world. How should it look like. More boys of muscular type?

I feel that tscommunity are a place with a mature view. Maybee it's a seems there is a lot of people here who has families and can se the woman and the childs of both sexes as a human being with all the pro and cons.

I'am of the opinion that we both sexes has to work together to make a better world.

I'm just amaze with your car and that you posted, nothing wrong in post... but that one week ago I saw your profile at Caligari's forum I saw your artworks at your website, really amazing Then I think, one woman doing 3D arts, I think I'll post at this topic, but I was doing the MMC and forgot, however you posted here, since you are a ''magician'' I think you got my think. I'm not lying...

I hope more female members appear. I agree with Tommy, there's no reason to not be an 50/50 equality!

Thanks

<"theorising mode">It's my understanding that males are more predisposed toward spacial awareness (probably explaining why they never ask for directions!!) and females are more predisposed to relational awareness. Thus boys like to throw things and girls like to play with dolls (ie modelling human relationships).
If we run with the old idea of males as hunters and females as gatherers we can see that a hunter - to be successful - benefits from a well developed sense of 3d space, for example the 3d spacial coordinates between the spear in his hand and whatever prey he wants to hit.
Males as hunters have evolved to sit still for hours waiting for the prey to get into the optimum position for the spear throw - and in Digital Man this could well translate as the ability to sit still for hours focusing on the spacial attributes of virtual points in a 3d space - ie; 3d modeling.

Females as gatherers have evolved to be more constantly active - searching through the undergrowth looking for a variety of edible berries, fruits herbs etc whilst simultaneously keeping track of where the kids are and where the other women are.

Males tend to mono-task - do one thing at a time, females multi-task.

In our little computer room here my partner and I have our pc's side by side - at any given time she will have a lot more active windows open than I will. If I'm surfing the net I'll usually have one app running (usually Chrome) she will have Chrome, IE and Mozilla all running at once with multiple windows open in each browser. Additionally, she will get up and do things away from the PC and then come back and do more social networking and emailing (note that she, like me, does NOT use Facebook, Bebo, Twitter etc) and taking time out to play games - in the meantime I'll be still working on the same task I started with.

I suspect that it is probably not the 3d modeling she would find unappealing but the spending of large blocks of time focused on a singular task.

Interestingly, in my day to day interactions with 3d artists (as opposed to 3d modelers) I'm probably in regular touch with almost as many females as males. The majority of those females are engaged in making an income from their art.

All in all an interesting question though - and one which would bear revisiting in 30 years time when I suspect that the ongoing masculinisation of females and the feminising of males (and society in general) will have a marked effect on the ratios of male to female modelers.
</"theorising mode">

You are right. We males are in for one thing and the females are for gathering things. It's funny that I usually go into a shop for one thing while my wife go out for shopping (In the sense of finding "something").

I have only one comment on this. When we humans lived i Africa as a human species women had to take care of the children and probably had to stay with the childrens side while the men were out hunting.

The thing about human hunting are that we are persistent. We can run for a long time and dispose our heat through perspiration. The thing the animals we hunted couldn't do. Our male ansesters could hunt the animal until the animal fell of fatigue and then kill it.

Fortunately there are only two kinds of sex. Is complicated enough like that. Snails have no problems with sex. Therefore, they do not need to go fast