United3dArtists Archive

Here are some thoughts about configuration upgrade in 2015.


My trueSpace computer is a 2010 configuration : i7 920 with Asus P6T and 6 Gb of DDR3.
It is still good for single frame rendering but I am doing more animations these days and a faster computer would be welcome.

In early 2015, making a configuration choice on Intel CPU is not easy though because we have 2 generations of Haswell processors and the new Broadwell is coming.

If you are considering the i7 5820k and the i7 4790k, which are in the same performances range, it is not easy to decide.
The "real life" benchmarks are close. On the forums, gamers tend to prefer a i7 4790k configuration that saves more money for the graphic card.

Here are some arguments in favor of the i7 5820k for a trueSpace and video station :

The 5820k is a 6 cores, running at 3.3Ghz each, with a 3.6Ghz turbo mode on single core. It relies on X99 chipset and DDR4 memory. Both are more expensive but a bit faster.
The 4790k is a 4 cores, running at 4.0Ghz each, with a 4.4Ghz turbo mode on single core. It relies on Z97 chipsed, which means DDR3 and less expensive motherboards.

The 4790k may sound superior in single core operations because of its higher frequency in turbo mode. In trueSpace, several operations are not multi-threated, like Bridge crossing (when rendering with VRay from Modeler), and Lightworks pre-rendering (HDRI mode). Also there is less power consumption on 4790k both in idle and rendering modes

On the other hand, when the rendering starts, the 6 cores of the 5820k versus 4 cores may make the difference.
Also, the X99 chipset and 2011-v3 socket on the 5820k configuration may allow for a 8 cores CPU upgrade in 1-2 years, while the Z79 chipset life is now ending. But as we got used to, Intel may introduce a new socket for Broadwell CPU in the future (some articles talk about a possible 1151 socket to replace the 1150), so compatibility is not guarrantee.

Now, regarding the amount of RAM, I hardly make use of the 6 Gb of my current computer so I guess 8Gb of DDR4 would be sufficient. 16Gb and more are for servers use I belive.

I made the mistake of getting just 8gb of ram and now with Windows 8.1, I'm down to 4 gbyte of usable ram.

Doesn't seem like a problem until one gets into heavy graphic processing like large files in Zbrush or 3DCoat or rendering something which chokes the daylights out of doing anything else.

My next computer gonna have 24 gbyte - of course, it will probably be 'cloud oriented' with some APP plugged into my cranium to act as a coolant to prevent over heating.

While the modeler of Truespace is still Ok for todays quality measures....all the rest
is very very old !!!!!!
Not that you cant make nice pictures with TS... its just not worth building
a computer to run it..... an old computer does it just as well...!
The real boost in speed is on the software side especially when you are rendering!
Some pieces of software can almost render in realtime!!!
The real difference is also the amount of objects that you can render
in a scene without slowing down.....
I personaly only render pictures mostly.... and just rely on 2 external render engines
I'm not fussy about my computer.. its 3 years old and has 16 gig ram....
Its basicaly off the shelf.. nothing special.....
All I spent the last year was 250 $ for the maintenence of Vue..... that gets you
the newest versions every year...and thats it...the other render engine that I use
was updateable for free the last year round...( Thea)....
I didnt update the rest.... isnt necessary.....!
New computer.......????.... Nah !
Important is also to keep the junk and malware off the system.. and
keep the tracing cookies down to minimum.....
Peter

Sounds like a machine with any of those parts will be awesome but I'm with Rayman: Don't build a machine for TS.

I advise leaving TS behind. It is time to learn new software. If you make the choice (which you should) to use new software then GPU rendering is growing in quality and popularity so using some of your computer budget for a good card is worthwhile.

My machine cruises at 1.6 Gb of memory use with Win 8.1 pro. I seldom use more than 4 Gb on renders with Daz and it took several (11 ?) instances of Bryce doing big renders to approach 8Gb. However, I'd get more memory if you can afford it. As James noted some programs need it.

I differ..... If you can build a good machine for ts, it will be good for anything else.

A high speed cpu and great gpu will be great for any software. Slowly the directx viewport will be outdated, same as the opengl aspects, but if ts will run well even if not multithreaded - I'd recommend that for any software.

I have had 8 gigs of ram on all my machines and seldom fill it, unless I have a memory leak.

TS is essentially 32bit, but you can patch it so it uses 6gig or more.

I do recommend another software for rendering, but if you are happy with ts's workflow, or what you CAN do with it... Sure, why not? Get a good gaming card and beefy cpu and an OK amount of ram, and see ts fly, or any other software for that matter.

Of course trueSpace is an outdated software, but it has all the tools I need and my 18 years of experience make me working very fast on it. I probably know all the tricks & tips to avoid its bugs n'crashes.

A look at Draise's superb 2D animation demonstrates that this piece of program can achieve professional looking animations in the hands of experts.
My latest portfolio also

Also, real-time renderers still can't beat CPU renderers in terms of quality-per-setup-time. A good real-time render takes time to properly set materials, shadows, lights, and this has a cost.

This being said, I agree that there is several 3d tools around that take advantage of the new hardware.
I keep an eye on Form.Z though. It is probably the best successor of trueSpace in terms of icon-driven interface.
But it lacks too many tools yet to let me jump.

Very impressive portfolio. Enjoyed looking at it even though I can't read french.
All done in Truespace?

It took you 18 years to become productive with TS? So that's why you fear learning new things. If it took me 18 years to learn stuff I would never have tried TS. I admire your persistence! Joke. Obviously, you learned TS very well in much less time. With effort we can learn things like CG software quickly and become proficient in a reasonable amount of time. If you intend to use software, or any tool or skill, to earn money then it is worth the effort to do that. Of course some finer points and great skills take time to develop but only at the highest levels is that degree of skill needed to be competitive.

Great work in your latest portfolio. You've always done great stuff.

Draise has done some awesome things with Softimage! Oh yeah, and some good stuff with TS. He's even made money with it as have several others (You. Prodigy. ...) which is inspiring to hopeful low budget freelancers.

(OK, Softimage is the TS of big boy CG software ... people loved it but it's no longer supported. His company will sink and drown, eventually, not soon, if they don't transition to something with continuing development and support.)

I've used TS since version 3, did a little 3D modeling and rendering with TurboCAD before that, and I've done traditional drawing and painting since childhood. Now I use mostly the Daz programs and I'm moving to Blender. I'd by Modo or Lightwave if I had money and I'd be quite willing and interested to learn Maya, etc., if I thought I had a chance in the industry.

The point is, my experience with art/CG/programs doesn't tie me to an old burden. It enables me to meet the challenge of learning new things more and more easily, to enjoy learning, to expand and grow in my abilities, to be flexible and adaptable.

Sure, use what's working for you now but invest for the future. TS's future is very limited.

I work with trueSpace for 20 years. Today, this represents 80% of my business. Because I do not need photorealistic renderings. The most important for me is to quickly visualize an idea. I only have a few years to work, so I keep my method. Nothing replaces perfect mastery of a tool. I lost a lot of time once wanting to be constantly updated. We must find a balance between learning and practicing. The only positive thing in the stop of trueSpace, is not to be tempted by again to learn because there is no update.

Note : This only applies to my situation and i am sure it is not a solution for most people.

Regarding the speed of a computer, it only depends on the quality of your coffee. Mine is excellent and I like to wait until the end of rendering.

marcel wrote:I work with trueSpace for 20 years. Today, this represents 80% of my business. Because I do not need photorealistic renderings. The most important for me is to quickly visualize an idea. I only have a few years to work, so I keep my method. Nothing replaces perfect mastery of a tool. I lost a lot of time once wanting to be constantly updated. We must find a balance between learning and practicing. The only positive thing in the stop of trueSpace, is not to be tempted by again to learn because there is no update.

Note : This only applies to my situation and i am sure it is not a solution for most people.

Regarding the speed of a computer, it only depends on the quality of your coffee. Mine is excellent and I like to wait until the end of rendering.

The Problem with your thinking is......... Microsoft !!!!!!
They stopped supporting XP... they are not going to Support Vista and soon Windows 7...... there will come the Moment when the end
Comes for TS... due to the Desktop System......

RAYMAN wrote: The Problem with your thinking is......... Microsoft !!!!!!
They stopped supporting XP... they are not going to Support Vista and soon Windows 7...... there will come the Moment when the end
Comes for TS... due to the Desktop System......

I've got an Amiga 600.

That device looks like this :

Its CPU runs at 7.14 Mhz. My configuration has a 80Mb hard drive and 4 Mb of RAM.

You know what ? They stopped supporting it

Among the reasons I keep using it is the fact that I developped a program to calculates ice cream recipies (using AMOS, an Amiga Basic language), and although I could re-create this program with Microsoft Access, it is faster to turn the Amiga on, enter some ice cream ingredients and get the right recipie done... than to spend a couple of days learning how to make Macros in MS Access.

That story is to say that some of use just don't care about support or upgrade as long as the tool is good for its purpose

@ Rayman :
The moment to stop to work for me will come before. Not a problem.

marcel wrote:@ Rayman :
The moment to stop to work for me will come before. Not a problem.

The Moment it will stop for me is a: I turn blind (hope never !!!!) and b:they put a tombstone onto me or
alternatively they will stuff me out and put me up for display !

See what great folks are here in this forum. We can have different ideas about things, discuss them, and even vigorously debate them while still being friendly, respectful, learning from each other, and admiring everyone's accomplishments. You all rock!

Finis wrote:We can have different ideas about things, discuss them, and even vigorously debate them while still being friendly, respectful, learning from each other, and admiring everyone's accomplishments.

That's right. It is called the trueSpace spirit and it is not available on other platforms, hehe

What I appreciate the most in trueSpace community relationship is that it often lead to friendship that lasts, even with oceans between us. In 1995-98, we were all some kind of pioneers in the world of 3D hobbyists and one could have said this relationship was born from this sort of solidarity network. The funny thing is that this spirit somehow has contaminated the new generation that came into trueSpace while there was already plenty other tools around.

I just took a look at the stats on my trueSpace tsx archive. The visitors map is also an illustration of trueSpace popularity that lasts despite its age.
Hey, don't we see Draise in Colombia there ?

You all rock, agreed. I prefer this forum over any other out there... and yeah! There I am in Colombia!

There are too many markers on MY dot. My dot feels smothered.
I kind of like the person's dot all by themselves up there in Iceland or Wizard's place in New Zealand.