United3dArtists Archive

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 16 Oct 2009, 17:48

Great job on the grenade. Love the Thompson SMG as well. Get some good textures on there and this will turn out to be one helluva scene.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 16 Oct 2009, 22:46

Breech Block wrote:Great job on the grenade. Love the Thompson SMG as well. Get some good textures on there and this will turn out to be one helluva scene.

Thanks Breech, it really helps... On modeling I've no problems, the question is texturing... I don't have much experience in this area, anyway is better learn doing

I'm just warning all of you that may my scene gets a bit ugly because of the texturing work, ie, if something good at texturing pick my scene and work in that he would reach wonderful results.

So ongoing... I'm to finish the Thompson and them upload at my opensource section, with the grenade too.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 18 Oct 2009, 02:43

The Thompson Model is finished, just need some details (like the M1) that I'll add later, also need the textures. I'm doing the models and then when the scene composition be set up I texture them. I'm not with will enough to start doing the uniform (because I know that will be relative boring), but I need to start.

Thanks for all support, keep going...

PS: Pics without SDS

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 22 Oct 2009, 20:29

I quit the MMC, so the development of this scene will be significantly slower than before and might stop. Anyway Thanks for all support and help provided. I hope finish it someday, I already change the Title... Now the name haven't MMC Aug/Spt Outpost -

Thanks Again

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 24 Oct 2009, 16:17

After Controversial posts I'm getting back...

Here is some texture tests... Feedback please.

PS: Garand isn't completely finished.

EDIT: I added a new textured model, the Thompson... isn't completely finished too and I need to put some SDS, but for now you can say if something can be improved

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 25 Oct 2009, 00:45

I think I'm getting the hang of texture, I did the bullets... Please feedback
Now I need to do the cartridges and if possible a uniform.
I can't wait to start setting up the scene

Cya

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 25 Oct 2009, 02:56

Needs primers. The cases wouldn't be crumpled as in the fired picture but it does add dramatic effect.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 25 Oct 2009, 03:16

The texture/shader on those shell cases look pretty good. BTW, crimped shell cases like the ones you have shown are normally formed from blank amunition. HTH.

I was going to have a bash at texturing your M1 Garand, but when I downloaded the file and tried to open it I got an "Unexpected End Of Archive" error message.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 25 Oct 2009, 16:15

@Finis: I'm a seer

I was sure that you will come and say that. I don't know much how a shell looks like after be fired, but by the movies I know that it just stay a bit burned where the bullet was... I did that for dramatic effect as you said, if possible could you post here or send to me a photo of a fired shell? Thanks for the contribution.

@Breech: Thanks... I know, but in the 40s bullets looks like that way, if I was going to do a nowadays scene I should use blank bullets. But thanks for that.
Thanks for the intention to texture the M1, I don't know why this happened, but I already fixed and put to download the textured version. Next time that it happens please post at the bug and problems section.

------------------------

Well, now I'm doing several tests on the ground. Here is some pics. I'll try to do some smooth footprints, how can I do that on a plane??? I dunno

BTW the thompson is for download and I'm going to upload the shells

Thanks

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Oct 2009, 07:38

texbul_03.jpg is very good. We can see each day your progress.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 26 Oct 2009, 09:31

I think the detail that you put into your models is great. I look at what you've done and i can see a number of places where I would have "missed that part"

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Oct 2009, 18:23

leonregis wrote:if possible could you post here or send to me a photo of a fired shell?

Probably plenty on the web but here you are. Fired has a dimple in the primer. Unfired does not. Mud was washed off of the rifle cases so the inside of the pistol case is a more correct texture.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 27 Oct 2009, 00:09

Thanks Marcel, as my longest project I like the progress effect... Some times I go to page 1 and read every single post until finish...

Thanks Tahnoak, I'm pretty detailist but I still don't know if this is a defect or a quality

Thanks Finis, interesting looks like nothing happened

I'll keep the model, since they won't be in close...
------

I'm starting the composition... So I'm just testing angles, compositions, lightnings and doing some more models (I did a backpack, a shovel, the trench formation). I did this one, just as test, but I'm not happy yet. I think I'll need to change the ground shape, anyway now that I definitely quit the MMC I'm not using Nitro anymore...

Thanks

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 27 Oct 2009, 19:41

WOW! You should have entered that last one with a close up steep angle to fill the lense and you would have had a great images leon! You could have won IMHO! :(

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 27 Oct 2009, 19:50

Maybe Theuns... we never know... The scene is just 40% complete I can do it much, much better! And you couldn't compare this to other MMC Pics, this is more like an SMC yet, don't have much models and hard work...

This week I'll have a little break on the project, but I finish it next week!

Thanks for all help...

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 28 Oct 2009, 05:39

Your models already have more detail than any of mine did for the Sherwood Outpost... for me an MMC is a prolonged SMC because of time constraints, just more than one low poly model arranged nicely into a scene. there is still a LOT more detail that i can and want to put in, but again, because of time, i probably won't, just like all my previous entries for MMC... ;)

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 28 Oct 2009, 21:48

I saw today at school Saving Private Ryan, before I saw that I just think, war isn't good. But now I think that war are terrible. After that I dream that a nuclear war happened and destroyed all world just left some small areas like where I was...

That initial scene is the most realistic I ever seen! I'm disturbed...

My models were too simple, just two weapons, sandbag, flag, helmet and grenade. Your scene is fill with things..

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 29 Oct 2009, 22:23

it is not the amount of objects that counts, it is how you arrange them... a very simple and basic scene with almost nothing in it could look wonderful with the right lighting and texture settings...

the trick is to find the right layout and arrangement of what you have.... look at the one below, all it really has is the little vehicle and the creature with simple "blockmen" positioned everywhere, not a lot of objects but the way you place them and the lighting you use makes all the difference...

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 29 Oct 2009, 22:27

Wow, stunning work! The problem is that those blockman transmit an action felling, like if something was happening. My scene is dead, it's more difficult to show that, anyway I'm doing it, slowly, but doing. I'm doing some test with bullet holes then when I finish that composition I'll start another until get the right one...

Thanks

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 29 Oct 2009, 22:41

thats fine, your scene shows the desolation of destruction that comes with war, it should look deserted and motionless... it is also artistically symbolic as well if you think about it... after war, people are dead and gone and the earth is scorched and battered... those objects leave clues and other metaphoric stories for the viewer without action but through inaction...

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 01 Nov 2009, 01:41

Howdy Folks, happy Halloween!

Thanks Theuns...
I bring one more image that has some new things but is not finished: I added two grenades, move the Garand, build one more trench, did holes at the Flag and the scene has DOF, just for test...
Of course it needs a lot of more things: Rocks and vegetation, WW2 Backpack, Burned sandbags, more bullets, blood pools (to show that there humans involved

), test some lightnings and found a background image...

Almost finishing this composition...
Please Feedback!!!
Thanks and Cya

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 01 Nov 2009, 04:52

Theuns has given you some great advice already. To add to that, I would say you have to have a clear idea in your mind what it is you want your image to say. Okay, it is a war image, but there are many aspects to war. For example is the war finally over and at last peace has arrived? Was the war over something silly and futile? Did good triumph over evil? Was it all a tragic waste or was it a victory for a just cause? What is your image trying to say? Once you have established this, it will help you construct you scene a lot more, especially in the lighting department. for example: early morning light would suggest a new dawn has arrived and perhaps with it new hope, whilst dark brooding storm clouds would be more suitable for a more sombre, desolate scene.

As for changes in the current scene, I would ensure you could see through the holes in the flag and dirty up the flag texture a bit. The Bunker at the back looks terrific, especially with the DOF, but the rifle in the middle ground looks way out of proportion to everything else. Are all your objects and distances properly scaled? I would also try and round off some of the edges on the rifle as this close to the camera they look way to sharp. You could either do this with the chamfer tool. Or you may get away with applying a smooth facet in the Material Editor.

As for improving the scene, I would add some coils of barbed wire and a brewed up tank on the horizon.

HTH.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 01 Nov 2009, 15:02

Back on the ammo thing. The ground is littered with unfired cartridges ... they still have the bullets. There would be fired cases everywhere from the fight. If a soldier dropped some while reloading then maybe some unfired.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 01 Nov 2009, 16:21

The position of objects in the image can enhance the drama. Sometime it serves no purpose to fill the space with too many elements. The simplicity of this picture shows many things. That is why it is very impressive.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 02 Nov 2009, 20:35

@Breech: I usually start my creations with nothing much clear, I just improvise and this is my way, maybe is no the better but is...

I really like how you explain things, where do you get that ability?

The wire and tank idea is great, will try to put it in.

@Finis: Yeah, there is some unfired because soldier let it fall or died while reloading, I could put some magazines near to say that those cartridges come out from the magazine.

@Marcel: I love simple thing, ironically I'm not good doing it... Anyway this is Composition #1 and the principal objective is show the battlefield scene, I already have the Composition #2 in mind, will start after finish this one. BTW thanks, the image is good and magnificent simple. Simplicity is a complexity solved!

Coming back... I did texture work and put a shovel, more cartridges a WW2 backpack and the scene has DOF as usual. Now I just need to fill the upper left side with wires and a wrecked tank or something like that, what will be hard to do is the background, I didn't find any background image that fits on this scene so I'll need to create... some trees, tall grass and things like that.

When I finish that will be really easy to start new compositions that will change completely the scenery.

Thanks and Cya

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 03 Nov 2009, 12:24

Looking good. Sorry to jump on the pile so late in the game but this is the first opportunity I have had (since I am away from home and don't have kids crawling all over me) to really study this and provide my own opinions/feedback.

1) Look at the scale of the grenade as compared to the other items (especially the helmet). It looks too big.
2) Look at the scale of the flag. I understand the symbolism that it is providing but it just makes me wonder what would have a flag that small on it. Which leads me to my next question...
3) Do you need to have that flag there at all? Does it matter if it is an American flag or a Russian flag or any other country? We know that WWII was hell and a lot of people died. Maybe you add another helmet that is different from the US helmet to show the loss of soldiers from other nations and remove the flag. To me the flag does not personalize the scene, the equipment that was used by the soldiers who were killed does.
4) I don't see any shadows from the guns on the ground. Is it because of the angle of the sun? I am having a hard time identifying the direction of the sun.
5) The gun stocks look too clean compared to the dirty ground they are on. I would think that there would be some similarities in the color on the gun stocks and the dirt that it is laying in as if wind had blown some dirt on them.

I really like the scene and think you are almost there with achieving the emotion that you are trying to evoke.

Hope that helps some.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 03 Nov 2009, 14:34

Footprints would be good. Put a bloody hand print on a gun (wounded using it) or something. Things like that strengthen the perception that people were here.

I think the flag isn't too big but the pole it is on is too thick compared to it. That makes it look like a toy which effects the mood of the whole picture. Maybe put the flag on a taller pole in the background. That implies there is something like an HQ or depot or outpost that they were defending. That expands the scope of your picture and invites the viewer to imagine a larger scene.

With the pole to flag and grenade to helmet proportions being odd maybe you should get some measurements and fit all the models to them or use reference photos to adjust the sizes.

You worked hard on the sand bags but they are hardly visible. Some other objects are just mysterious blurs. If that is supposed to be smoke or dust it doesn't look like it. Less depth of field would fix this.

A German, Italian, or Japanese object near the foxhole could imply close up combat. Items from the UK or other allies might help with "implied expansion of scope".

Don't think that long lists of suggestions mean your picture isn't good. They are mostly just details.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 08 Nov 2009, 15:12

Thanks Tahnoak your comment is one of the most helpful for the scene...
1) You're right... fixed
2) Adjusted the scele
3) You are right, maybe I need to create some objects that represents other nations involved, but for composition 1 I'll keep the flag...
4) I don't know but is strange, for some reason I think that the light aren't casting shadows, I'm using Noon Light of the library, I just modified the angle and the color a little.
5) I didn't understand it completely, I soiled it a little in my last pic, do you saw?

I really appreciate this comment, thank you very much!

---
Finis your comment also is great and really improved the scene, thank you.

I make the pole less thick and I agree with you that it looks like a toy before, but I was not sure if was the flag. I create a low-poly depot, where the flag now stay.
The DOF is to strong, I agree. Now I make it a little more smooth, and how can I make something like fog/smoke... to looks like a low mist?
Will work on more objects for the next composition.
---------------------------
Ok I had the opportunity to work slowly this weekend, I fixed some problems and put some improvements that Tahnoak and Finis suggested, thanks again, now I'll work in the final details... like the sky and some foot prints and hand prints, I did some tests with it and the hand prints is almost invisible so I don't think that I'll add it, but the footprints are on the way...

As I said before, I create a low-poly depot (Finis suggestion), an broke vehicle, wire and barricades (Both Breech suggestion), worked on the scale ( Tahnoak and Finis suggst).

Tons of suggest are always welcome

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 08 Nov 2009, 15:46

To do smoke, several options:

1. I recommended using one or more planes with textures of whispy smoke on them. Transparency mask as needed.

2. Post processing in Paint Shop or such.

3. For a low layer of fairly even dust or smoke you can use the fog foreground shader.

4. Premium quality but hardest: volumetrics. Simple and advanced volumetric foreground shaders exist on model side. One or both of them allow perlin, fractal, or something, noise that can make streams and whisps like smoke. These are hard to use, make long render times, and need repeated trial and error to tune the effect. Also they work best when the scene and objects have realistic units and sizes and all the units are the same (world, object, all feet or all meters...). An object that is really 8 feet tall should be modeled as 8 "TS" feet tall, not 8 points or inches.

To combine foreground shaders you would have to make more than one picture and Paint Shop them together.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 08 Nov 2009, 18:05

It lack dark shadow from the objects to the ground. that can help to understand more the details. Maybe because you use only map shadow(?). combine map shadow and ray shadow can do a realistic scene. Map for diffuse shadow and ray for dark shadow from the sunrise. Map light need to be a little blue (simulate the color of the sky) and ray light need to be a little yellow or orange (it depend of the hour). For the sun use several infinite light (3 or 4) with a little different rotation (about 0.1 degree between each light) to simulate a very little smooth edge for the dark shadow from the sun. Setting of the light can enhance X10 the quality of your scene.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 08 Nov 2009, 21:36

You can see here how shadow is important:

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 08 Nov 2009, 21:39

I love shadows, for me it's what really gives the 3D perception, besides perspective of course!
But I don't know what is happening, and I even didn't understand what you said before... what is map shadow? explain please.

Thanks

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 08 Nov 2009, 23:38

marcel wrote:You can see here how shadow is important:

Absolutely priceless!!!!!!!

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 08 Nov 2009, 23:44

leonregis wrote: But I don't know what is happening, and I even didn't understand what you said before... what is map shadow? explain please.

right click (red circle on top) to open the setting of shadow. On shadow type, choose ray or map. The others setting are for map shadow only. Map size and quality affect the render (balance between quality and time to render). For a best image choose size 2000 and quality hight.
now you can do the shadow:
Use two parrallel infinity light. One orange (color of the sun) with ray shadow and one blue (or color of the sky) with map shadow. why?
to color the shadow. The color of the shadow is the complementary color of the light. The areas illuminated of the objects receive both colors that mix. This mixture is neutral as a white light. But the shadow map and ray are different and do not overlap exactly. The edges are colored. If the light "ray" is more intense than the light "map", the shadow will have the complementary color of light "ray". The light of the sun is orange then the shadow will be blue.
now you can setting the intensity and the color of "ray" light and "map" light then choose the sharpness for the map to smooth the shadow. Last step: do another infinity light (with neutral color) with map shadow and low sharpness to simulate a global illumination. This light need to have the same direction than the view of the cam and a low intensity.
All that seem complex to explain but when you understand that, you can do good render with only 3 lights and the render is very fast. I use that kind of light for animation and save a lot of time.

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 08 Nov 2009, 23:56

leonregis wrote:Thanks Tahnoak your comment is one of the most helpful for the scene...
1) You're right... fixed
2) Adjusted the scele
3) You are right, maybe I need to create some objects that represents other nations involved, but for composition 1 I'll keep the flag...
4) I don't know but is strange, for some reason I think that the light aren't casting shadows, I'm using Noon Light of the library, I just modified the angle and the color a little.
5) I didn't understand it completely, I soiled it a little in my last pic, do you saw?

I really appreciate this comment, thank you very much!
---
Finis your comment also is great and really improved the scene, thank you.

I make the pole less thick and I agree with you that it looks like a toy before, but I was not sure if was the flag. I create a low-poly depot, where the flag now stay.
The DOF is to strong, I agree. Now I make it a little more smooth, and how can I make something like fog/smoke... to looks like a low mist?
Will work on more objects for the next composition.
---------------------------
Ok I had the opportunity to work slowly this weekend, I fixed some problems and put some improvements that Tahnoak and Finis suggested, thanks again, now I'll work in the final details... like the sky and some foot prints and hand prints, I did some tests with it and the hand prints is almost invisible so I don't think that I'll add it, but the footprints are on the way...

As I said before, I create a low-poly depot (Finis suggestion), an broke vehicle, wire and barricades (Both Breech suggestion), worked on the scale ( Tahnoak and Finis suggst).

Tons of suggest are always welcome

You are quite welcome. I feel bad when I don't have the time to give a lot of feedback on people's work.

Definitely better contrast between the butt of the rifle and the dirt. I would say do the same thing to the helmet. It stands out as too green against the foxhole that it is perched along.

Good idea putting the flag with the outpost and I think some low fog would be a good idea too.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 09 Nov 2009, 00:08

Thanks Tahnoak... just to understand. You think that the dirt on the weapon and the helmet are too dark compared with the ground? Or that the Helmet is too green.

Sorry...

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 09 Nov 2009, 00:25

Rifle and ground look good. The helmet is too green compared to the dirt. I can see the red, which I assume is to symbolize blood but there should also be some dirt shading on it as well.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 09 Nov 2009, 01:21

Thanks Marcel, I'm sure that it will help... will give it a try soon.
Thanoak you mean something like this?

Maybe I have exaggerated...

Thanks
Cya

tahnoak · Post by **tahnoak** » 09 Nov 2009, 02:23

leonregis wrote:Thanks Marcel, I'm sure that it will help... will give it a try soon.
Thanoak you mean something like this?

Maybe I have exaggerated...

Thanks
Cya

Yes, that is perfect because there is no way a bloody helmet is still going to be intact

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 16 Feb 2010, 02:49

Going to revisit it and really finish. All phrases have a try in the begin:
Pick some high res textures for the dirt
Fix the dirt
Put a good sky there
Add a fog there
Scale some objects and even change some positions...
Shadows

It's pretty much it, let's see if I can do that to finally finish it.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 16 Apr 2010, 18:03

Hey I'm happy that it is on the final stage, I finished but accepet critics, and that's what I want... the final stage is, finished until someone point something to fix or improve.

Thanks for all your help, I really enjoyed this one.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 16 Apr 2010, 18:59

Nice atmosphere. Maybe a small gradient on the background would be better (lighter at the left and darker at the right). More contrast at the bottom of the scene can enhance the dust at the horizon. This will give more depth. It is only a work of photo editing and personal artistic view.
Why bullets were not used? they are positioned on the ground as if they had served but they are full.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 16 Apr 2010, 19:58

Thanks Marcel! Yes, the scene is better that way, but what you talked about contrast at the bottom of the image? You mean that I need to select the bottom of the image (20%?) and then increase the contrast?

Thanks

marcel wrote:Why bullets were not used? they are positioned on the ground as if they had served but they are full.

Actually most of bullets in the scene had been used and just those closer to the guns (and camera) are full.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 16 Apr 2010, 20:42

leonregis: "but what you talked about contrast at the bottom of the image?"
To enhance the effect of depth, create a mask then add more contrast and dark. Just a little like you can see at the right. It was what i did in my first test.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 19 Apr 2010, 10:25

hey not a bad job at all :)
it can be always better, right q is: is it good enough?

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 20 Apr 2010, 11:39

WOW! The scene is really starting to take shape nicely... looking great marcel!

I tend to be way too impatient and quickly loose interest if a scene takes too long, as a result, I have a lot of unfinished scenes and models just sitting on my hard drive

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 20 Apr 2010, 13:41

theuns wrote:WOW! The scene is really starting to take shape nicely... looking great marcel!

I hope you understand that is a work of Leonregis! I just show some idea to enhance the result.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 22 Apr 2010, 08:02

Ahh, I thought it was funny that I saw your name with those images but it didn't sink in and I didn't read all the posts

Sorry, leonregis

Great work on this, love the atmosphere and lighting effects, really gives it that special something...

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 23 Jul 2010, 02:55

This is the final version

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 23 Jul 2010, 07:00

Very nice Leon....

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 23 Jul 2010, 08:10

very good.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 23 Jul 2010, 08:18

looks great, leonregis... love the way you composed the scene, the bumpmap foreground works well and the "fog" works perfectly for the mood of the scene... well done

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 24 Jul 2010, 02:51

Looks good! Did you do the contrast thing for the fog like was discussed earlier in the thread?

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 24 Jul 2010, 10:31

Very nice war scene Leonregis! It reminds me of the Medal of Honor and Call of Duty WWII games that I played so often. But I must admit that Marcel is right about creating more depth to the scene. It does look a bit flat. You can change this the way he said and you can also change the brightness and contrast and above all, play with the Levels settings to give the colours a more natural look. It will really add to the quality of your render. I myself love to work with Photoshop and I am always looking for ways to pimp my renders a bit. To show you what I mean, I "Photoshoped" your renders a bit to get a more "film-look". I did this with your image to show you what is possible and to push you in the right direction. Leonregis, I hope you like it.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 24 Jul 2010, 16:49

Well That's actually the final version of the render, so there's nothing more I like to render. But I wouldn't mind in improve it on photoshop or anything related to it. The problem is, I just don't know how to, I never tried before, so maybe would be a good chance to.

Buzz I quite liked what you did, that blur and sensation of DoF. I like most the first, because it mantain the yellow color that I want in the scene, because of the dust. I really would like to know what you can do

Thanks for all positive feedback v3rd3, bitkar, theuns, Finis and Buzz

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