United3dArtists Archive

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 06 Sep 2009, 17:17

How do you see the cloud computing in 10 years?
I think that will be a way to control any more what we do. I have no confidence in Google. Civilization become too dependent on the Internet. I'm tired of the tribes of millions of people who do not even know their neighbors. The aliens watching us are laughing in their spaceship.
.

lothissen · Post by **lothissen** » 06 Sep 2009, 17:38

I agree with you marcel. Microsoft, Google, even Apple are all the same, companies looking to squeeze more money out of their customers and limit their choices to ones they approve of

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 06 Sep 2009, 17:58

For me even now Big Companies have a huge control about us and cloud computing is a tentative to have absolute control.
Sadly may that will be our faith I wish not, but is just a matter of time. I agree that Google, MS, Apple are the same thing, too much power in just one hand it's a bad thing.

I really hope that cloud computing don't establish in our society. I think that internet is a wonderful thing, the pearl of humanity at this time, but like everything you need know how to use, internet is like the Alexandria Library mixed with telegraph system saying in old terms, here you can talk with anyone, anytime, anywhere and can search in those Search Engines and receive a answer normally satisfactory like a oracle, you can express your ideas freely, most of it is changing to worse like in China, Iran and others... So we just need to observe this changes and twist for the best.

This a good topic thank you Marcel for introduce this subject

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 06 Sep 2009, 18:33

I´d say cloud living !
How many of my friends cant live any more withouit looking into facebook all the time
and telling the world thatg they just went to the toilet and did this and that.......
They live the life in facebook !

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 06 Sep 2009, 18:42

I think that social networks in the internet it's a tragedy, twitter, facebook, orkut, etc... A waste of life, I just use MSN and most for functional means, even being pressed by friends to open an account in thats services but I keep my position.

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 06 Sep 2009, 18:48

I just looked that up on wikipedia.

I'm on facebook, but I'm keeping my time there to a minimum. Many of my
RL friends moved away, and now we are all in touch again through facebook.
Many of them still live in my city, and I can see them any time I want.

Getting involved in more useful projects tends to help minimizing the
facebook time.

The internet has been extremely useful to me, especially for health issues,
but I'm even getting tired of keeping up on that. Still, it's been invaluable.
Instant pubmed articles and stuff like that!

I think it would be interesting, eventually, to do the skype video thing
for working on projects.

PS I think the toilet updates is more twitter level.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 06 Sep 2009, 19:01

I think I have a facebook profile but I forgot the password

. I've never used and I'm not interested. Japan is the country most connected with internet. It is also the country with the most suicides. With the dematerialization, the man has an infinite amount of knowledge but he does not know who he really is. Cloud computing will worsen things. Especially with the coming generations who have no other references to escape the control of internet.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 06 Sep 2009, 19:28

The development is in the right direction when the humor follow. We have the choose of our futur.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 06 Sep 2009, 19:58

LOL ! Hahahah !
Quesquíl dit ........... ?

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 06 Sep 2009, 20:14

Too difficult for me. I am 75% deaf (real, not humor), my pc has a very bad sound and I do not understand much English spoken because my disability.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 06 Sep 2009, 20:25

Aha Ok ! I was just fiddling around with lip synching for Fostman so I just set that up pretty quickly....

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » 07 Sep 2009, 00:56

marcel wrote:How do you see the cloud computing in 10 years?
I think that will be a way to control any more what we do. I have no confidence in Google. Civilization become too dependent on the Internet. I'm tired of the tribes of millions of people who do not even know their neighbors. The aliens watching us are laughing in their spaceship.
.

Kang and Kodos have been laughing at us for centuries.

I think Civilisation has become almost dependent on the Internet, yes. Nobody at least 18 years old would be able to even imagine the world without it. But we could live without it, so we're not really dependent... yet.

But then, think of this. I'd guess that almost all of us on this forum were born into a world that already had electricity, aeroplanes and penicillin. If any of those things were taken away, it would have a much worse impact on us. Yet we never worry about our dependency on them.

Why? Because we have a certain degree of control over them. We can vote foe governments that will ensure we keep them.

But we have no control over the Internet. It is, and always has been, built, maintained, and manipulated by faceless people. We can't see them or talk to them or influence them. But as long as we use the internet, they can and will influence us.

The Internet is probably what Orwell really imagined when he coined the term, Big Brother. A seemingly benevolent entity to whom we are loyal, but who can influence us any way he likes, if we let him.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 07 Sep 2009, 06:56

Good analysis kurt. The real danger is not dependence, but in control. The dependence is the result of the use of what we have. But it's the control that decides what we can have. We should be able to decide what we can have.
Another danger is the fact how are social networks: they make you believe that the value is counted with the number of "friends". For young people, it quickly become an obsession to have more and more "friends" just to say: "I'm interesting". when a person decides what is important, it does not decide what you must do but social networks know how to persuade you especially if you're young and you do not have references to be master of your mind.

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » 07 Sep 2009, 09:37

marcel wrote:Good analysis kurt. The real danger is not dependence, but in control. The dependence is the result of the use of what we have. But it's the control that decides what we can have. We should be able to decide what we can have.

Exactly right, Marcel. And of course there's the problem of manipulative people taking advantage of others by convincing them that they "need" whatever it is they're selling. So, they're controlling us by making us depend on them to tell us what we need and/or want, because when people become dependent, they can no longer think for themselves. It's how television advertising works. All advertising, in fact.

Another danger is the fact how are social networks: they make you believe that the value is counted with the number of "friends". For young people, it quickly become an obsession to have more and more "friends" just to say: "I'm interesting". when a person decides what is important, it does not decide what you must do but social networks know how to persuade you especially if you're young and you do not have references to be master of your mind.

Exactly! That problem has always existed for younger people. But it seems to me that it's much more insidious today, more widespread, and more accurately and aggressively targeted.

Talking about age, I can honestly say I'd hate to be a twenty-something today!! I think it must be much harder to be a truly self-reliant person today. Because today, everything one thinks has to be checked against the "group" opinion. Maybe all those dire predictions of robotic automaton people in the future will come true!

PS: I just had a thought that maybe we should continue this conversation over at the "Off Topic" forum.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 07 Sep 2009, 10:38

@ Kurt:
It is a known problem in my profession as a designer: when to sell something, just create a need. whereas before it was our real need to create something. That's why I left my company some years ago to be independent and do something more creative.
The problem of "group" opinion is that what you do is criticized by the whole community. This risk forces to remain in the standard to avoid being excluded. this is the robotic automaton people as you said.
About the topic of this thread, cloud computing is the ultimate weapon to force people into submission. The arguments used to justify it are baseless. when they make you believe that this become a necessity, they are in the false logic of the need to sell. Not in the interest of your real desires. That is he going to happen ? truespace is one of the first victims of this bad logic. A lot of soft will be in the cloud or die.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 07 Sep 2009, 16:57

just create a need ... not in the interest of your real desires.

Business, advertising, etc. all fine with me but I don't like the advertising/marketing method of manipulating people either. Prosper by providing what people want not by programming them to want something. What I do for my business is find out what customers want, try to provide it, and advertise that it is available and where to get it.

There is the herd mentality on social sites like facebook and forums. That is not new to internet interactions. Sheeple conform to the herd norm to be popular but there is a lot of stealth spam/influence of a deliberate type too. People paid or recruited to promote products, ideologies, organizations, etc. pretend to be ordinary participants on twitter/facebook/forums. The US government has been caught using a company to do that kind of influence. Product review sites are loaded with false reviews. Giving your own opinion like Rayman with Kerkythea is different.

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 07 Sep 2009, 17:53

I think I find it hard to see my friends on facebook as "sheeple."
They are hardly that. I only have about 50, and they are all
people I know.

They are all liberal artists, writers, and musicians. Some are also college
teachers.

For us, this is a real way to be in touch with each other again.
And if somebody comes back to visit, we all can know about it
together, and can plan get-togethers.

Used in the right way, it isn't so horrible. Moderation does the
trick.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 07 Sep 2009, 18:20

Finis wrote:
Giving your own opinion like Rayman with Kerkythea is different.

I give my opinion about pretty many products because I use them myself and I dont get anything for telling people my experiences.
When I try to show what and how I use it i always also look at the financial possibilities of the people and in case of Kerkythea its free !
Its not good for animation thats why i prefer a different workflow. Its the only standalone product and up till the time when Jack made the
exporter for Yafaray there wasnt any choice for a good and cheap radiosity solution(apart from Dribble)(thhe other exporters were broken). I couldnt say that Vray for Ts was good because it was sort of broken. No comparison to the outstanding Vray for Max.... but whats the use Vray standalone is with 1000$ out of most peoples reach.
so it was more a question what was possible to be used.
I am very greatfull that i got the good idea to get onto the beta of Moi3d (thanks to Mark 3d visuals dude). If i would tell you guys about
a 5000 $ Solid Thinking modeler and the parametric do everything bla bla bla it wouldnt be of any use to anybody but anything that can be purchased for a reasonabcle amount of money isnt that bad......
I also got the Carrara pro version on the cover CD because Paul (Splinters ) told us about it being on a CD !
Thats basicaly what i come to the forums for to find out about good stuff that i can use and what other people think about it.and how I can save some cents......

On topic cloud computing and that goes hand in hand to what i said above i wouldnt find it all to bad to be able to use a fluid simulation for
about 2 hours and pay a certain fee for using it online or something else that i only need occasionaly and not pay 3000 $ for something that
I would only use 4 times a year..... its simply out of my budget

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 07 Sep 2009, 21:25

tylerzambori wrote:I think I find it hard to see my friends on facebook as "sheeple." ... They are all liberal artists, writers, and musicians. Some are also college teachers ... Used in the right way, it isn't so horrible. Moderation does the trick.

I've found the groups you listed to be severely infested with sheeple so it is good to know that your friends add to the non-sheep population there.

I described sheeple and you assumed I meant that all users of facebook, etc. are sheeple. You expanded my statement into something that isn't there. That is a very common error that people make now days. My statement was about some bad uses of them and not a statement that it is all bad. In fact I agree with you. I don't think Facebook, and similar things, are bad. I think they are good.

Cloud computing (software-as-a-service?), the internet, trains, post-it notes, raincoats, are tools. Tools are good. Trouble comes from people doing bad or foolish things.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 07 Sep 2009, 21:34

OK it is time to explain the importance of what happens.
Facebook is very litlle problem compared to the machine which will develop within 10 years. When I speak of the fear of cloud computing, it is no longer about a "tribal" youth who speak of love and music but of sensitive corporate data.
- It no longer controls its data. They are "in the cloud"
- It no longer controls its applications. The updates are imposed.
- Cloud computing will be the killer of open source.
- You become dependent on the supplier's Cloud because it has access to all our sensitive data.
- If the network goes down (storm, viruses ,...), we can do nothing.
The post of adviser to the U.S. government specializing in new technologies has been entrusted to Eric Schmidt, head of ... Google!. It may legitimately be concerned about the idea of a world where billion computerized users would rest in the hands of a few tens of multinationals. The economic crisis does not make (some) men less eager for power and profit.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 07 Sep 2009, 22:27

And yet powerplants are in govermental hands and if they would simply stop them for any reason you dont have computers
and networks either.
Just dont see everything in the future negative because only 30 % of what we fear will happen......
as for my own work I dont see anyone who will spy on it nor do I see anyone who will do it for me ; P
I see it as pretty strange that some people who worry about how they can download a whole site at once
because it is closing down also worry about privacy and artistic rights like copyrights.......(I dont talk about any of you in this discussion.. )
We are already in a simple grab society.....I dont see how cloud networks and pay per use has any effect on it.
We already have billions of gigabyts of information around us and its technically no problem to read each of our emails......

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 07 Sep 2009, 22:29

Yeah I was commenting about that in the beginning of the topic when they introduced about social networks

Come back one page and read...

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 07 Sep 2009, 22:36

we will still have paper in 10 years !
USE IT !

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 07 Sep 2009, 23:12

RAYMAN wrote:we will still have paper in 10 years !
USE IT ! :lol:

DAMN STRAIGHT!

: tproll.gif (30.71 KiB) Viewed 5846 times

First Light · Post by **First Light** » 08 Sep 2009, 14:22

Hi Marcel,

I don't think that I understand the concern over cloud computing. It's just a server-based computing model only in this case the "server" is a a group of computers (the "cloud") that are interfaced to each other and their clients via the internet.

I've been using computers for a long time. In fact, I go back to the punch tape era (before punch cards). The first calculator that I ever used had tubes in it and connected to a central processing unit along with about 3-4 other calculator terminals. We used them in high school for chemistry calculations.

What I've observed is a shift away from the server model of distributed computing to the stand-alone personal computer model where applications reside locally on the client computer rather than on the server.

There have been many energetic attempts by the companies that sell "big iron" (i.e. big mainframe servers) to move the computer industry back to the server model and it has consistently failed. Most users do not want to give up the performance and local control that they have with a personal computer and client-based applications.

Now Google is trying to reintroduce this same old server-based model for its office applications with the hope of attracting customers away from Microsoft's suite of client-based office applications. But I believe this will not succeed on a large scale. The performance and features of server-based office applications that are hosted via the internet just isn't good enough and there isn't much hope for improvement in the near future. In fact, most of the folks who do switch to a server model for their office applications will probably do so out of frustration with Microsoft's high pricing, poor support and application "code bloat"---not because they prefer a server model.

Nowadays the successful use of the server model is mostly for database aggregation, web hosting and specialized large-scale corporate applications that are primarily front-ends for databases. It is also used successfully when extreme computational power is required such as render farms, certain types of scientific applications (such as modeling weather), and cryptography.

All a "cloud" is is a way to create a virtual mainframe. By itself it isn't going to do anything bad and I can see where it would be a good tool to have available because the cost of supporting your own mainframe or server farm is so expensive.

Personally, I believe that our fears are misplaced when we focus them on technology. I believe the root of the true problem lies within us and I do fear for the future pain that we seem to be heading toward because of the poor moral underpinnings of our society.

For example, there was a person in America a long time ago who predicted the Great Depression. When asked how he was able to do so, he explained that he had examined business across the land and concluded that more than 50% were dishonest. He said this made a crash inevitable. My purpose in sharing this is not to poke at my country---there are far worse examples elsewhere around the world---but it's the example with which I'm familiar. My fear is that we (the world) are heading toward a similar crisis of morality today and it may result in a far worse crisis owing to the global nature of business.

I'd better stop there because, if I continue, we'll go seriously off-topic into areas that some will not want to discuss in a 3D forum.

Best regards, First Light

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 08 Sep 2009, 16:12

First Light wrote: I'd better stop there because, if I continue, we'll go seriously off-topic into areas that some will not want to discuss in a 3D forum.

I understand

As you said it is not a problem of technology but the use of it.
The topic was not making predictions alarmist or optimistic about the cloud. I wonder how the cloud can change the way we work. For example, if it was possible to do whatever we want in the cloud, it'll kill software that we love? I remember when caligari decides to stop. The first concern was to safeguard data. Would you like to work without hard drives at home and without knowing where is your data? etc...
Now you can continue to talk about updates and tutorials.

First Light · Post by **First Light** » 08 Sep 2009, 19:19

marcel wrote:... For example, if it was possible to do whatever we want in the cloud, it'll kill software that we love? ...

I guess this depends on which software you "love". The applications that I depend upon are mostly Adobe apps like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Acrobat Pro. I even depend upon PageMaker for some things. I can't imagine these migrating to the server side in a "cloud" scenario. They require way, way too much computer horsepower to run through such a small pipe as the internet. That's the problem: the connection to the "cloud". As long as it is the internet, then any server-side app will be severely limited with regard to (1) speed, (2) reliability, (3) security.

So I don't expect the "cloud" to have any impact on the applications that I depend upon---at least not during what remains of my lifetime here. I feel the same way about 3D apps like trueSpace.

Now if we focus on office applications like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access, they do not require nearly the bandwidth as the Adobe apps that I mentioned. But I still don't expect them to migrate to the "cloud" because of the three limits again of speed, reliability and security. I think we'll see some minor movement in that direction---but nothing major.

marcel wrote:... I remember when caligari decides to stop. The first concern was to safeguard data. Would you like to work without hard drives at home and without knowing where is your data? etc...

Now this is a serious concern. But a business would have to be pretty stupid to expect to store sensitive data in a place for which you have inadequate security. New lessons to illustrate this are happening every day---all we have to do is read the news about the latest hacker exploit.

But, again, I just don't see a compelling reason to move sensitive data to the "cloud". In America we can now buy an external 1 TB (terabyte) hard drive for US$79. That's unbelievable! I've seen 2 TB Seagate drives for $209 at http://www.newegg.com" . Storage capacity---even reduntant RAID arrays---are now amazingly cheap. So I don't see a financial incentive for a business to go out-of-house with a data storage system.

By the way, if anyone reading this wants an excellent network-hardened SATA hard drive rated for 24/7 operation, then I highly recommend the Seagate Barracuda ST31000340NS which you can purchase for US$159 from http://www.newegg.com" (we used to pay about $350 for them). It's the largest network-rated drive at present. Every one of our storage systems is now some form of RAID array (both desktops and servers) and these are the drives we use.

Best regards, First Light

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 08 Sep 2009, 20:06

Yes data storage are cheap (see the photo). It would be unconscious to not continue to keep its data but men are sometimes unpredictable.

about yours softs, here is an info from CNET news:
"Adobe Systems wants to have it both ways.
Microsoft's power with programmers is tethered to desktops and laptops, the vast majority of which run Windows. Google is trying to dominate what it believes is the new frontier, cloud computing, where applications run on the Web. Adobe, though, is trying to run down the middle with a strategy that touches on both domains"

at the beginning, adobe was only for Mac. Since pc became more graphic, adobe work for pc too.
the futur of Adobe depend on what happens between Apple, Microsoft and Google. which can predict how will the computer world in 10 years? While we care about our small monthly updates, we do not see the storm incoming.

2010 for Japan only:

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 13 Sep 2009, 18:03

Back to topic...
OMG, they can create more crap every day...
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/friendsforsale?v=wall&viewas=0"
News: http://www.ehow.com/how_4509729_buy-fri ... ebook.html"

I can't believe how far we are going...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 13 Sep 2009, 18:42

And how much is it to be god? You can buy friends, diplomas and everything you want in the cloud but stupidity is a real sure bet.

hultek43 · Post by **hultek43** » 14 Sep 2009, 05:11

Some people walk with their heads in the clouds daydreaming. Reality can be a harsh environment.
& LOL @ evoloution.jpg

BooxieMalone · Post by **BooxieMalone** » 16 Sep 2009, 14:35

Hi,

... been out in the beautiful mountains of France for a while ... and back again I found this topic.

There are some other reasons why I fear things like distributed & remote computing/applications or selflessly, nobly offered free online serverspace. Especially in view of those affiliated groups - which are trying to grab the individual property-rights of texters, photographers and others by simply proclaiming their general conditions of bussiness, which shall add everything which was routed over their net automatically to their own property - give occasion to beware of ones intellectual rights. Everybody should be wide awake by this threatening developments.

Dispossession of intellectual property is not comparable to grabbing legal stuff by users. (Raymans post)

On the other hand, I don't want to believe that all people would be so naive to save their sensitive data on the internetspace. I wouldn't trust at all in any companies commitments. Is this too much optimism? Let's hope our fears will not come true and stay Sci-Fi.

For my part I already did take some security precautions in my personal way of esprit, as I want to point out in a small relaxed excursus (let me recall Kurts post).

Kurt wrote:

Talking about age, I can honestly say I'd hate to be a twenty-something today!! I think it must be much harder to be a truly self-reliant person today. Because today, everything one thinks has to be checked against the "group" opinion. Maybe all those dire predictions of robotic automaton people in the future will come true!

(- here my farsightedly progressed approach to distributed & remote security comes in -

)

Yes Kurt, I fully agree! That's why I backed out from the internet for some time to take a cure in an Aging-Farm ... Now back again, I'm feeling young again without having to appear so.

The utmost advantage of that cure is, no one knows or recognizes me anymore nor my address. I completely deleted my HDs, so every connection from or to the internet went over jordan and can not be reestablished, except this one. My new face is not associated with my name or email account so far. So it's gotten difficult to influence my opinion, I think I stay secure ... I don't remember ... ah, what did you say? Hey, where is it ... anybody hidden this damn medicine?

Cheers.

Though I'm sometimes getting not too serious about this topic, don't fear too much my friends - better take it easy - WE DECIDE! WHAT WE WANT IS WHAT WE GET.

-BM.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Sep 2009, 09:15

Microsoft office will have soon an Internet version. Pay for professionals and free for individuals (for how many time?). Some features of windows7 avoid exchanges between programs and operating system (i think it is a test for Midori). The Midori project of MS is to create an operating system on the internet how to Google chrome OS. Midori will be operational after 2012. Midori and windows7 sit alongside for some years. Doubtless windows disappear around 2015 (?). It depend of the futur use of peoples. by then, only programs suitable for cloud computing will continue to evolve. difficult to imagine a world without windows but is the goal of microsoft (not documented) ! Nothing to pay but anything to rent.
Today, the desktop disappears while netbooks proliferous. This is the beginning of a major change. for the first time since 20 years, the average power of laptop computers is down (atom) because unnecessary for the internet and low price needed (crisis). Is there going to be a market for personnal powerfull 3d worksation in the future? Or is that they become rare and therefore very expensive?
ps: I am not afraid, just curious to know.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 26 Sep 2009, 13:20

Future always uncertain, we have a lot of others alternatives in the more conservative we will stay with our desktops for long time, the only problem is that internet is becoming the center of Computer Technology, in the words, all hardware developed supports or is directed for internet. Internet it's a wonderful thing but is losing control, okay that's the objective but it is becoming something to explore you and not you explore it. Internet is the perfect tool of a Big Brother, that's not fiction or joke... Today if you have the powers of CIA or Government you could find anyone, know their whole life, ideology, thinking and almost their reaction just by internet and if you add the GPS, cellphone, you can know in realtime what they are doing... I can't remember where but I see it on the New York Times, but I was thinking in it before read, it's too easy to discover. The problem is that internet is evolving more and more and more for this side and not their principal objective spread information, the only problem is that now we are spreading crap information... I'm shitting now (this is a bad word, if is sorry but I can't traduce it properly). Wikipedia tries, journalist blogs too. But they are losing the battle...

Now talking about MS and their plans... Looks ghostly a world controlled by MS, anyway you need to know that other companies are trying to swimming upstream and they are getting good results so it's impossible predict what will happen just because you know what MS are doing, besides that I think that almost all big companies want that OS get out the parade (Google, Apple, MS) so the future without OS and even computers maybe will come, and will be sad, those companies vainglory it because are a lot of interests involved first that you will just need a monitor, keyboard and mouse (if it even exist in that age) then you will connect your monitor in a modem and will enter in the internet, the internet will be your OS with you login and password you will be able to enter in some tools (Office, open office, etc) if you want more tools you need to pay, and if just one big company monopolize this dark world he will certainly control the prices as he wants and that's my fear, the only way to make this world lighter is if opensource or free soft wins the battle that is ongoing now...

Thanks
Sorry for this big and incomprehensible post

Karthogen · Post by **Karthogen** » 26 Sep 2009, 15:42

It was nicely writen, and you make a lot of sense. But, there are benefits to this also, that could be beneficial to a lot of people that take advantage of it.

The bad side is privacy, there will not be any. but, if you think about that now privacy is just an illusion, anywhere you go, at any time (depending on where you live) you are being video taped, stores, malls, trafic lights. It is really now what people do with that information when they have it.

For the benefits, you could have access to anything at any time with no limitation other than your internet connection and provider. So if you had a big scene in TS it would no longer be your, video card, Mother board, chip slowing you down, but how fast you could connect to the main server to access it. The limitations of the home desktop would be gone and all you would need is a Monitor and an internet connection.

Everything has benefits and disadvantages, Right now I hate being limited by my home PC and having to upgrade every few months to stay one step behind the top of the line.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 26 Sep 2009, 16:15

I think that the disadvantages are larger than the advantages.
You are right the privacy today is something superfluous, they can know what I'm doing, talking, where I'm going... But they never have the certain of what I'm thinking, in internet they can have that information... Right now in just this forum seeing all my post you can know almost who am I.

Other thing is that HDs and memory hardware will disappear and all the information will stay in the internet, of course will be protected by cryptography and login, but the authorities can easily obtain a permission to see, today the authorities stay something good but we never know when a second Hitler will rise

Hope you understand...

Cya

Karthogen · Post by **Karthogen** » 26 Sep 2009, 16:20

I do, you are correct. All that information is out there right now, this will just put it all in one place and could be an easier target fro someone that can take advantage of that. But if we limit ourselves by fear of what could happpen, how can we stand a chance to develop. We need to learn from our historical mistakes and hopefully put enough controls in place to prevent history from repeating. but, we can not limit things that can be beneficial based on what might happen.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 26 Sep 2009, 16:37

Sadly in Human Race story we always commit a mistake in the first time, when we start to know before happen we will evolute. Sometimes we know what will happen but the money variable always messy up with our thinking, that's strange... Internet is something new, never happened before, because this we don't know how to control or what it will become, we really need to be cautious now, but Big Companies doesn't share the same point of view... That's my fear

Cya

Karthogen · Post by **Karthogen** » 26 Sep 2009, 17:14

True everyone is out to make a dollar or control a dollar somewhere, and until that changes we are doomed to corruption and greed. But i am hopeful and optimistic that the internet can not be controled completely. I feel it will end up being another television channel with millions of advertisements, where all communications, phones, TV, Radio flow through one source and is piped to each household.

There is a balance between ease of use and secutiry/privacy that needs to be acheived.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 26 Sep 2009, 17:18

Agree with almost you said, now I'm really busy so I'll reply it after...

Thanks, very cool chat here

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Sep 2009, 17:57

I might be offending some people but this is not the problem of privacy that worries me. Is the danger of monopolies. I think usa do not like monopolies of companies in their country, which is good for competition. If we look at it globally, there is a contradiction: in the world usa has a monopoly on cpu, gpu, OS, that don't worries me but now if it want the monopoly on access to knowledge, I find it dangerous. But this questions may be too political for this forum. Still remain positive without being blind.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 26 Sep 2009, 18:05

I don't think too political... Just that monopolies of knowledge already existed and are a bad thing, I think that internet is there to make knowledge free and impartial, if they monopolize this internet another will appear

Privacy is something too banal today, but is too important... Now we don't have problems if someone know what we think, want, where we are, etc but the problem is the future, could appear some situations that a line of thinking is prohibited so if they know that you think in that line they could...

Hope you understand...
I think that internet is there to spread knowledge and if you know how to filtrate you are in paradise, of course if something is viewed much times they will advertise in it, human behavior...

Cya

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 26 Sep 2009, 23:55

marcel wrote:now if it want the monopoly on access to knowledge, I find it dangerous. But this questions may be too political for this forum. Still remain positive without being blind.

Now exactly where do you get that from ? We have a global marketplace with labour outsourced to as far as India or China.
Especially even in 3d and softwaredevelopment....
Its not the monopolists that kill the competition its us the customers....
Plus its a question of how big the overhead is....
You can see companies like Alias as companies that want to build into the monopoly direction but you can also see that
all products under one roof lower the cost for both R&D and advertisement and publicity.....
Lots of products get canned because they are simply not bought !
All the worldconspiracy theories that include bad monopolists also have a very simple economical background......
Most of the great 3d animations come from U.S based studios.... would you think that its only because of some
bad conspiracy.... no way its you who goes whach it and because its mainly stunning work..... thats more money to them
and an even larger next project....finding Nemo - Wall E - Up and it goes on.....

Karthogen · Post by **Karthogen** » 27 Sep 2009, 02:08

I can not judge US vs External 3d projects with my limited exposure to non-US projects. Btu I do beleive Those teams, Pixar, Dreamworks, etc put out some amazing work. But anyone from anywhere with enough cash, could find enough people to put together a visually apealing work and get it to market.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 27 Sep 2009, 02:20

Do you need to have a phenomenal idea, then gain money with that and invest with you want or need. Pixar was created by Steve Jobs when he gets affasted of the Apple, he wins a lot of money with apple and decided to invest it on Pixar and they win a lot from Pixar. The ideas are revolving around us we just need to catch but I think that it is getting scarce, now all ongoing revolutions (Internet and informatics) are losing their initial effects, we just need one more opportunity!

Cya

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Sep 2009, 07:51

RAYMAN wrote: Now exactly where do you get that from ? We have a global marketplace with labour outsourced to as far as India or China.
Especially even in 3d and softwaredevelopment....
Its not the monopolists that kill the competition its us the customers....
Plus its a question of how big the overhead is....
You can see companies like Alias as companies that want to build into the monopoly direction but you can also see that
all products under one roof lower the cost for both R&D and advertisement and publicity.....
Lots of products get canned because they are simply not bought !
All the worldconspiracy theories that include bad monopolists also have a very simple economical background......
Most of the great 3d animations come from U.S based studios.... would you think that its only because of some
bad conspiracy.... no way its you who goes whach it and because its mainly stunning work..... thats more money to them
and an even larger next project....finding Nemo - Wall E - Up and it goes on.....

I am not talking about market, conspiracy or money. I speak of control, what you "need" to know to exist in this world.
we have a global marketplace for economic reasons but this does not prevent the risk to monopolize the control of the culture. it is only this problem that I find dangerous. For example, Google is scanning all the books of the planet without paying royalties to earn more money through advertising when we read them. Google has 150,000 infringements of copyright in lawsuit, only with France. But Many countries prefer to sell their cultural heritage just for money. who decides what is important to know in 30 years? As you see business and money is not my fear even if money is the cause of the problem.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 27 Sep 2009, 10:32

marcel wrote: who decides what is important to know in 30 years?

Very simple "US people" or "WE" not to confuse with U.S.!
Its what we buy and use today that gets us the technology of tomorow.
Its not a mysthical invisible hand its simply evolution of market.
And there are no holy cows..... any big company can get into big trouble if they cant get
it sorted... just look at the U.S. car industry !
So I am not so sure if cloud computing will be that much of a common practice
because the people have a habit to love to own something rather then lending technology.
But if you look at metacrawlers like Google...we dont own that as a software and still
have no problem to use it.
Same as with the internet its not content that we have on a disc its somthing "outside"
In fact we will have much more 3D content in the web in 20 years so its our business that
gets a boost and lots of things will be more interactive then they are now including
the learning experience. No I do not fear the future I try to activly help shape it.. !

Or to put it into Truespace analogy it would still be around if more people bought TS 7xx

it wasnt the bad MS big brother etc. it was the users...... TS 7xx wasnt what the people wanted...
you see how many people stick to TS 6.6......
So learning new software was our decision.... its the market

Karthogen · Post by **Karthogen** » 27 Sep 2009, 15:08

I think that is a lot of the Fear, Right now there is the open marketplace were you can go purchase the software you want to use, if enough people want to use it, it will take off. Now in the future, if everything was online on these server clusters, and you would reach out to the server to open the program and work from these servers with never having to have it installed on your PC, WHo is going to control what is available on the server, If google likes say Maya, and maya pays them big bucks, will Vue no longer be available to use. Same with information, if Google does not like a way an online newspaper is reporting something, can they then block this information from being veiwed, in turn filtering the information that reaches the people to better control the direction of the world. So this is where a monopoly on this type of computing could go wrong, If they can control what you know/see they can control you. But can you put a stop on evolution because a few people may take advantage, No you have to trust that people will do what is right and people need to speak up if they see something that is not.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 27 Sep 2009, 16:27

Aha right Karthogen but thats not a problem of the medium thats a problem of us human beings.
Did they take the people that broadcast against the last war against Iraq with them in the media pool ?
Wasnt that what the hippie generation was all about...and Woodstock 40 years ago ?
As long as the people lived there was force and counterforce and it always went in both directions.
Democracy is a balance of force......
Its not the companies that rule its us....

at least nowadays.....

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 27 Sep 2009, 16:31

Don't worry about problems without solution, at last they don't have solution.

Cya

PS: Interesting Posts here

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Sep 2009, 18:21

Rayman:"As long as the people lived there was force and counterforce "
abuse too often leads to conflict between users and producers. In France we still grumble.

It's in our culture, but it often improves things. Even if it is not always understood outside because many think "money" in first. Result: we have a broadband internet connection + hd tv + phone unlimited for less than 30 €. Now we begin to grumble to have mobil phone unlimited in additional for the same price.

I think in a few years having an internet connection going to become a right established in the french law because it become a vital need like food. It means that if you have no money, you could have a free connection. Everyone has the right to walk on the road even if he can't buy anything. Even if it does not mean where he go. that is a good start for a cloud model.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 27 Sep 2009, 19:10

marcel wrote: In France we still grumble.

I spent 20 % of my life in France mainly "dans le midi " I know what you want to say.
The French aren´t that much different from the Austrians in mentality....
I honestly dont expect those great changes in the next couple of years.
Yes everything will be faster ......
But so great changes in society i doubt it ..
It will take longer for the society to turn upside down
The last couple of years was the greater change... from analog to digital and the upcoming of the internet and
affordable 3d technology..... music as mp3 files....
affordable High definition television technology....
thatr was a big leap we made !

Comparable to the industrial revolution in 1900

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Sep 2009, 19:30

with the industrial revolution in 1900 we had 2 world war! hope we are in the good way now.
ps: where in the midi ?

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 27 Sep 2009, 19:44

Juan les pins pres de Cannes ..... ..et en plus a Arles (Camargue)....et au lycee Estienne dÓrves a Nice...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Sep 2009, 20:09

Beautiful region. I do not know Australia but is a country attractive, wild and modern at the same time.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 27 Sep 2009, 20:46

Marcel no not Australia ... Austria .. Autriche!

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 28 Sep 2009, 07:40

Oups! sorry. Problem of cloud when we discuss with several people without know where there are from.

GraySho · Post by **GraySho** » 29 Sep 2009, 18:04

Once and for all:

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 29 Sep 2009, 20:51

Well i wouldnt be sure about that !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4813976.stm"
http://www.austrianews.co.uk/2006/10/12 ... australia/"

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 29 Sep 2009, 21:11

Cloud computing is certainly a daunting topic for many and it is good to see such a diversity of input to the subject.

Ultimately cloud computing as a method of distributing computing power will offer tremendous flexibility and the concept of demand availability will be realized. Whether this is desirable to all is really not an issue for the business and government entities that will drive it. It is yet another step in the direction of nirvana for large corporate entities that want what they want when they want it. These entities, being entirely cost driven, only want to pay for what they use. Cloud computing satisfies both basic criteria ... potentially unlimited supply of computing power when needed and a usage based cost model that can be used to download costs to smaller entities.

Corporate consolidation will create the single source of software... or some form of holy trinity ... Autodesk gobbling up the 3d market is just a recent example of how these trends will continue. If you remember James Caan in Rollerball the world was run by corporations. I think this will be the future for our children. Perhaps governments will soon have the relevance of monarchies ... official placeholders of public spirit. I can just read the headlines in my mind.... "Worker Emancipation Act now sponsored by Coca-Cola"... oh well.... or was that "Orwell".... I digress.

The privacy concerns created by this kind of environment are warranted if you fear big brother. But, you are already too late. Big brother owns the table and knows who you are and what you like. It may not be an accurate picture but someone analyzing your credit card transactions already knows that Seven Eleven will sell more beer if they stack beer beside the baby diapers. It's not personal but it is you as part of the throng of consumers. And each of us as part of the throng is our relevance to economy.

BTW we are creating the need for these changes since we became the Walmart generation. Consumers have proven to business that they do not concern themselves with their own jobs as long as they can buy stuff cheap. The middle class and the economically challenged have already proven they like paying the freight for the wealthy... we do it every day without complaint...

Interesting thread... thanks again Marcel...

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