United3dArtists Archive

One of the arguments against open sourcing truespace was that it used 3rd party tech like Lightworks. It seems now that the Lightworks rendering engine is no more, the company who made it is now on-selling Iray tech - which it calls Iray+.

Although I doubt it will ever happen, I wonder if this means that the core argument against an open-source truespace is diminished somewhat.

I don't think any effort was made to contact these 3rd party companies when TS was killed off by MS in the first place, however I wonder if they would still be open to the prospect now. Anyway, I can dream.

Just forget the idea. It will not happen.

There were several attempts to make tS open source, and several attempts to contact Microsoft about the issue. I personally tried to contact some folks at Microsoft through around three mail adresses. No response. I even wrote a posting at one of the developer forums. No response.

You have to start from scratch when you want to have a trueSpace kind of 3D software. Takes about 100 - 300 manyears or so. Fulltime

As much as I like TS and consider it's interface, philosophy and workflow; I think yeah, it is nearing 5 years since it's EOL. It may be more efficient to build from the ground up a new system with similar concepts (with the support of a somewhat rich benefactor) with a team of taleneted people to incorporate trueSpaces ease of use philosophy right into a new product.

Right now Fabric Engineis free for use up to 50 liscences, and it's a whole system built around KL, a python syntax C++ optimized code system, also built around nodes - that can be used to create interfaces and whole 3D platforms within other packages or as a standalone. It also has a DX11 viewport and GPU accelerated systems - to build a new "opensource" user friendly package like trueSpace - I recommend getting into that. it's free for up to 50 seats - and with that you can build directly into Maya, Softimage or Max, and they are considering splicing into other 3D authoring packages. If it could be spliced into Blender, that would be the ultimate opensource 3D package you could incorporate TS's philosophy.

It's very powerful, and more when you know Python and know what you want to do.

I do recommend you breakdown what is awesome of TS, and try replicate it or "splice" it into another package.

The coding platform of Fabric Engine is already created - and a lot of the tools (GPU enveloping and autorigging, cloth, particles, crowds, DOF, AO, procedural modeling, etc) have been done and left for free - and more you have a huge audience and market if you develop on that platform, as it works in most mainstream packages from Autodesk without having to recode anything.

So... break TS down, find out what makes it tick. Is it the icon interface? The floating button toolbar? The world/object/view orientation, Z up click and drag everywhere? Axis limit of the interface? The ability to move objects in world/object/view orientation without having to use the widget? The box with the gimble widget? The animation tools? The full body IK rigging with FK limits and possibilities? The LE with it's ability to edit everything scene wide from nodes? The realtime viewport - WYSIWYG type of work? The ease of use? The multiple viewports, the scalability and ability to modify the layout? What is it that makes this software tick, and how can you build your system to reflect or even better that philosophy?

Cloth, hair? TS was never fully developed, but the philosophy was nearly there. And it's great, and still very future proof concerning what it had in mind to be.


So yeah, maybe it would be worth getting into FE to build what you want as a standalone or as a spliced function in mainstream software - or even get onto developing trueSpace's philosophy into one very strong opensource app already out there, Blender. Put in a whole new Icon based interface, create a new way to manipulate objects, better the viewport, help develop node level editing of everything in the 3D space - work on full body IK rigging, easier widget based deformers (bend, twist, etc) any of that... cause it's opensource, you can, and it will develop down that area.


Decompiling a 5year old chunks od DLL's to then re-organize what is what to then document it then share it, then start developing it from Truespace will prove to be a huuuuge amount of hard work and time, and it will just get you to square 1 once all that hard work is done. Better start at square one with the design and philosophy of trueSpace for something much more easier to build with today's tech and code, GPU acceleration and optimized code.

And if you ever do get some kind of crowdfunding to make a TS gpu accelerated clone 2.0 - please update it's progress here on the forum, I'll support you, though I'm more artistic than a programmer...

We all share with you the dream of TS continuing. I wish it would happen, open source or as an MS product, but it is not going to. Our time is best spent learning other software and making good pictures with it.

Too bad about Lightworks. It was great and the latest versions had up to date features. Did it morph into Iray?

There were several attempts to make tS open source, and several attempts to contact Microsoft about the issue. I personally tried to contact some folks at Microsoft through around three mail adresses. No response. I even wrote a posting at one of the developer forums. No response.

I didn't know this, good on you for trying. I guess that shuts the gate on any opens source TS - shame.

As much as I like TS and consider it's interface, philosophy and workflow; I think yeah, it is nearing 5 years since it's EOL.

I've always used other 3d apps, Shade is my main one now (and also was when I bought TS7 after may years away from the app). Fabric Engine is a cool idea, but it is supposed to be an enterprise application for studios who build there own tools. Not saying it isn't cool, but open sourcing TS is more about exploring it's potential than trying to keep up with modern tech like this.

I've used many 3d apps, Blender included, and nothing really feels like old-school ts. It still does things, or has plugins, that I've seen nowhere else. It's still a very solid app, and more fun to use (when it doesn't break ) than any other 3d app I've come across, save perhaps Bryce. It's biggest issue right now is it's lack of 64bit support.

Open sourcing it wouldn't bring it back to life, but would at least give it a worthy shrine imo.

Too bad about Lightworks. It was great and the latest versions had up to date features. Did it morph into Iray?

No, Iray is an autodesk product. I think they are leasing the tech and are using their commercial connections to install it in other software. It's similar to what Bunkspeed has done with Iray, sort of.

I am long past thinking of coding. To be honest the industry consolidation has moved very quickly and the innovator's dilemna is staring CG in the face. You either get involved with a smaller project ... perhaps less formality and more room to spread your wings ... or get into a massive project ... more formality, narrower participation but greater chance of success.

If I was starting all over I would be looking at how what I did well would fit into Blender if I was interested in advancing the open source movement and joining Autodesk if I was going the commercial route.

TS is still my favorite freehand modelling tool, when I get the chance to do anything these days, but other products have simply outdistanced what TS did reasonably well but never finished.

The greatest gift we ever got from TS is the few of us here who cherish the history and each other's accomplishments.

v3rd3 wrote:
The greatest gift we ever got from TS is the few of us here who cherish the history and each other's accomplishments.

Oh jeez now I'm gonna get all choked up.

Awwwww...... Yeah, I do agree.