Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

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Emmanuel
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Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

I just upgraded to Windows7 professional 64 bits, after 6 years of Windows XP pro 64.

In trueSpace, Modeler mode, I can see a display bug in DirectX mode when switching between the different views : the view does not refresh immediatly, even if I clic in it. I have to move the mouse over the navigation widget, or do some change in the scene (move object, zoom, etc...) to make the window to actually show the view content.

Note that there is no problem switching views in windowed views as long as I use the window view's top/side/perspective icons.

Did anyone experienced this before ?
Any idea how tofix it ?

Thanks in advance!



I still can use DD's MagicBox plugin to switch between views though :)
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Emmanuel
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

I found that when I switch between views using shortkeys, there is no refresh problem... so I will probably use the keyboard now, rather than the icons.
I could also create 6 plugins that would activate each view shortkey and use them instead of the default view icons :mrgreen:
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by spacekdet »

Take a look at this: http://www.dawdolman.com/GamesDev/TrueSpace761.aspx"
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Emmanuel
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

spacekdet wrote:Take a look at this: http://www.dawdolman.com/GamesDev/TrueSpace761.aspx"
Thank you Spacekdet.
I installed the LE fix, but it doesn't help with the Modeler side refresh issue.

It seems Windows 7's internal 3D acceleration interfere with trueSpace's DirectX mode. In both pure wireframe (no acceleration) and OpenGL modes, there is no graphic issue with tS.

I wonder if I could un-activate Win7 acceleration...

Since this is my first upgrade to Win 7, I am not very familiar with its settings.
I already applied a patch to remove Win 7 "ClearType" feature that tends to blur fonts on my monitor. The patch also replace the default system font with the good XP's Tahoma.
Ahhh ! It is so good to have Tahoma back in tS, by the way :)


I wonder if everyone experience that same refresh issue in Modeler or if it is specific hardware/driver relative ?
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Emmanuel
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

Emmanuel wrote:
spacekdet wrote:Take a look at this: http://www.dawdolman.com/GamesDev/TrueSpace761.aspx"
Thank you Spacekdet.
I installed the LE fix, but it doesn't help with the Modeler side refresh issue.

It seems Windows 7's internal 3D acceleration interfere with trueSpace's DirectX mode. In both pure wireframe (no acceleration) and OpenGL modes, there is no graphic issue with tS.

I wonder if I could un-activate Win7 acceleration...

Since this is my first upgrade to Win 7, I am not very familiar with its settings.
I already applied a patch to remove Win 7 "ClearType" feature though. ClearType tends to blur fonts on my monitor :( The patch also replace the default system font with the good XP's Tahoma.
Ahhh ! It is so good to have Tahoma back in tS, by the way :)


I wonder if everyone experience that same refresh issue in Modeler or if it is specific hardware/driver relative ?
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Steinie »

I have Windows 7 64 bit and have no refresh issues on the Modeler side of trueSpace. (The "fix" corrected the refresh problem I had on the workSpace side) My graphics card is an ATI card.
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Emmanuel
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

Thanks for the information Steinie !

So it may be a driver issue... I prefer this :)
There is an ATI HD5750 graphic card in my computer, with Catalyst driver version 8.92-111109a-129966C-ATI (the latest available on ATI site).
What is your card/driver Steinie ?
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by trueBlue »

I wonder if running the constupdate.py phython script would be helpful?
You would need to stop it in order to run Render Scene.
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Draise »

I had similar issues when I tried to run the MS on OpenGL. I have an ATI radeon card. My OpenFL won't automatically refresh whenever I switched over. A quick fix was to change the render drivers to something else, like Direct3D, then I had no issue.
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by MikomDude »

I have the same thing with my NVIDIA Card. Just clicking the DirectX button in the upper right corner always fixes it for me, though it is only temporary...
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Steinie »

No refresh problems here at all using Windows7 64 bit DirectX mode.
trueSpace Model side with 4 view panels. All 4 update in real time.
ATI Radeon HD 5670
Catalyst Ver 11.5
Direct 3D Ver 7.14.10.0833
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by spacekdet »

Open via right-click DX settings & turn off 'bilinear filtering' and 'perspective correction' - helped refresh issue here.
Still using onboard video ( I know, I really need to get a dedicated card )
I still sometimes lose the VRay library windows somewhere behind the main 3D window and have to alt-ctl-del my way out.
Sort of like the old boolean bug, I am slowly learning to save first before opening material editor.
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by bitkar »

I have exactly same prob here at work on Win7 Pro 32bit (nvidia card). I usually "solve" that clicking to a small view window (which i use all the time) with my middle mouse button (which does nothing) to focus the small view and then click back to main view. That will refresh the main view. It sucks but i got used to it. Thats why i keep XP x64 at home.
Btw: interesting is that i experienced working it properly few times. Very randomly just few view changes. Then the bug got back again. I dont know why is that and what it is related to.

edit: spacekadet gets 1000 points! Turning off the perspective correction solves this problem

edit2: Few clicks later its the same. Turning the perspective correction ON again makes it work for a while again. Then it does not work again. Wierd. spacekadet looses 999 points.
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Emmanuel
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

bitkar wrote: Btw: interesting is that i experienced working it properly few times. Very randomly just few view changes. Then the bug got back again. I dont know why is that and what it is related to.
YES! That bug happens at random. I would say 80% of the time in DirectX mode, a bit less I think in OpenGL. Changing DX or OpenGL settings does not help. I tried several settings in Catalyst control panel... no way!
TrueSpace seems not compatible with Windows 7 Aero : it automatically disables Aero when trueSpace starts. So I think the bug doesn't come from a conflict between tS and Aero.

Note that the bug also comes when trueSpace focuses on a panel, then add some item in the scene. Example : clic the Object panel, then add a cube in automatic mode (not in scalable mode so the mouse doesn't hit the scene background) = the cube does not show up until you force the view update (zoom, eye rotate, etc...)


TrueBlue, thanks for pointing the constupdate.py script. Unfortunately it doesn't help in this particular case.


Thanks for the driver versions info Steinie. I removed the latest Catalyst driver, and installed an old one (Catalyst version 10.3), but I see that D3D version is more recent than yours (Direct3D Version 8.14.10.0735)... I bet this could be the cause. I will try to get back to an older D3D version.


Bitkar, there is a useful plugin called ERTEX, that refreshes modeler view (handy to update textures being edited in Photoshop). Too bad we have to clic to refresh... I will try to get in touch with the author, Ed Philips, to see if he still has the code source so we could add an option to make it run every second.


I installed Windows 7 32bits on my laptop. No problem at all (it uses an onboard Intel graphic chip though).


Thanks for all your help everyone :worship:
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Emmanuel
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

I think I have found a workaround.

Since that's Direct3D that causes the bug, I tried to disable system's hardware acceleration. Problem : Windows 7 does't let you change that !
So, I installed dxcpl.exe (you can find it here). That tool adds a DirectX utility in the Configuration Panel. Here you can uncheck an "Allow hardware acceleration".

At launching, trueSpace will warn you that there is no rendering in Workspace view. In other words, only Modeler view will be available.
But at least, now you can use tS with no bug at all in OpenGL mode (bug still occurs at random in DX RGB emulation).
disableHA.jpg
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by Emmanuel »

It seems Win7 doesn't manage well bitmaps in 4bits (16 colors) and this is the cause of our problems with tS in Win7.

The graphic bug with LinkEditor comes because of the background texture of the LE, which is in 4bits. You can fix it using ResHack, a utility that allows to modify dll and exe files, to change icons, dialog boxes, etc...
Here, simply open LinkEditor2.dll, find the background bitmap, and replace it with an edited version saved in 16 or 24 bits. That's it!

I couldn't find a way to fix the problem with tS6/Modeler though.

So finally, I re-installed XP pro 64 + Win 7 64 in dual boot mode ; so I can use Sony Vegas 11 (which requires Win7) in video edition session, and keep my favorite programs in an XP session the rest of the time.
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Re: Windows 7 pro 64 and tS7.6

Post by bitkar »

nice research, really.
oh ya, vegas 11 and other apps that req. win7 - i hate it. I still keep vegas9 + some plugs. Maybe i will make the dual boot too, if there will be no way forth with XP only.
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