Blender UI, Tiles

[Finis]

Just a thought.

I found this on the Blender site.
"... including time to provide feedback on UI design and usability. At least one of the permanent seats in the team is reserved for a designer to perform these tasks full-time."

Tiles would be a good candidate for the permanent seat. He has already studied Blender's code. With Bforartists he has experience improving the Blender interface. By working for them in this job he could, get paid to fool with Blender, influence the main development line to have a better interface, learn even more about blender's programming to apply to Bforartists.

[RAYMAN]

You mean you dont like him! ;
Blenders Ui is a mess!
Tiles and his friends are making the new layout!
Blender is capable though! But not through its genuine layout! Bforartists shows that one can do better!

[bitkar]

ya, maybe he could have more power to change things right in the core of development. Would be nice if blender went tS way. Blend of good and well supported app with a shit UI and app that is no more supported with a genial UI. Best of both worlds. Coz bending the current UI has its limits, from what i understand. Still tiles made me install and try to use Blender and actually be able to make something. As soon as i will have more time, i will try to make some actual object or scene. Blender was previously totally unusable for me. Now its actually possible to work in it :D If this could move next big step, maybe i could switch to Blender. So far tS is the main thing.

[Finis]

Yeah, that's the idea. Tiles work from within to improve the UI and on his own to continue BFA. I think the unpopularity of the Sensei UI is not a good indicator. Blender plans a simplified interface for "casual users". We'll see how that goes. I'd call it "Slender", Simple Blender, ha ha ha.

Blender UI is unusable? Strange then how gazillions of people use it and many do good stuff with it. It is only a minor challenge to pass the steep first part of its learning curve and be rewarded with a world of power for no money. It takes some flexibility and dedication to leave the comfort of your familiar programs, meet new challenges, and grow in your abilities.

I don't hate or like Blender's regular UI. It is not a good UI but it is effective after the initial learning effort. I have no intention of using BFA unless somehow (grin) it became the official UI. I do want BFA to succeed. I want Blender to succeed in improving UI too. A well designed UI helps artists to be creative and pros and studios to be productive. A not-so-good one interferes with imagination and creativity and is inefficient.

Probably right about limits to major changes. Few programs are designed from the start to change in the future. Then it is either a costly total rewrite or doom. Another failure to be flexible.

[Draise]

I doubt Tiles will want to. He is retired, has no monetary motivation, probably too expensive and annoying to relocate, he even tried earlier to work with the Blender devs but was personally shunned by the Blender community and devs themselves for his ideas and contributions.. thus he opted for the fork to have a bit more leg room to manifest what he envisions for BFA. He has been really clear on that, that it was nearly impossible to take lead and direct any UI improvements with the "committee" like Blender direction with other priorities; and reading how they talked about him in other forums, it is clear why he would feel personally more comfortable standing on Blender development sourcecode and then adding the UI friendly touch with the fork of BFA.

And I'm ok with that. I personally prefer using the BFA fork, it's like adding hundreds of feature improvements over what any Blender devs will do in years from now and what they do presently, every release cycle. It's just... will always be ahead of the game by adding fixes and improvements over every release of Blender. The system IS Blender, just.. easier to use. If I am stuck on shortcuts from Blender, just change the input map and viola... no adaptation problems. Even files are compatible.

I also prefer promoting success with another "opensource" competition to Blender, knowing that two giant knives make each other shaper; a symbiotic system that drives better products for the end user. So I will support the lesser guy, but clearly the easier one to use (and still a Blender product).

And yes.. Blender is useable, have used it in studios with large teams, I know a lot of people who use it.. also I know a lot of people who use Maya, and I also know a lot of Softimage people who moan about Maya. I know once you know something, the UI is not an issue.. you just get the job done.. but for learning sake and for time/pleasure sake... I do prefer UI friendly optimized versions of whatever.. and personally I CANNOT wait for the Blender devs to do it when BFA has it's priorities right, and the development targets clear.. it's not about features, more about UI. It's just too expensive to wait for the behemoth Blender to be unanimous in it's opensource development direction to focus on that sort UI improvement when they have a thousand other projects to improve: the viewport, Cycles, the whole data and animation architecture. UI will and has always been second priority for Blender devs. Even in the 2.8 development. And even if they improve, BFA will always step up each release by years of development into the UI optimization.. years...

Best case scenario is Blender incorporates all of BFA's modifications from all the hard work Tiles has done freely, and even then BFA will probably still be a step ahead in the development and keep going.

[Emmanuel]

Nice input. Thank you Draise.

[Finis]

It was disappointing at first that you believe I was serious about Tiles getting this job. I noted "just a thought". You know, a "what if" to dream about. Now learning that Tiles did try to work with Blender devs I do see how you thought that. Unfortunately not surprising how he was rejected and scorned. Blender cultists are known for being like that. It leads to lack of adaptability and nature has a penalty for that. It will be a shame if it someday follows TS into oblivion unless it was defeated by superior competitors.

Competition, the core of nature, the engine of excellence. Don't limit yourself to one product nor to open source or commercial. Use whatever is best for your own needs. Hopefully several competitors will appear. Perhaps better to create those competitors than improve Blender's interface.

My meaning about Blender's native UI being usable is that people who won't try it because of its initial difficultly are being wimpy. I just tried to be nicer about it. Blender isn't a a good choice for some but the unwillingness to meet its minor challenge to try it is not a happy thing to see and I know these folks are quite able to do it.

You (Draise) have met the challenge of learning several programs and have used them for varied goals. That makes your analysis valuable. Yep, expertise and experience with a program makes it easier for you and so more fun and productive. Still, you are right. A good UI is even better.

[RAYMAN]

So now you guys get my first sentence..... you dont like Tiles ..do you..!!
Blender community is a lttle stuborn! Gone this way tried it myself.. learned a lesson!
What I like about Blender! Its open and there are tons of addons allmost all for free or little money!
Want easy modeling.... for nurbs..there are better options.. for poly...there are better options... for architcture Sketchup......!
Blender has its merits...but my time on this planet is to precious to spend it with things I dont enjoy..so thats ....my ..thing that drives me...!
I use Blender...but only when I like to!

[bitkar]

unusable.. ofc i was speaking for myself. I installed blender several times and everytime i saw that i said to myself: "screw that, this is gonna be no joy to work with".. i just doesnt fit MY personal taste for how things should work and be in the UI. I had no motivation to overcome the first part when i saw how things are in blender. I dont doubt there are milions of ppl making great stuff and are very able to control blender well. It is a very capable software indeed. I just dont want a software to stand between me and the process.

I will be watching and trying the BFA. I like this. This changes things for me. Dont get me wrong - I want to learn and be able to use Blender. I simply love open software. BFA is a way to go for me. That totally solves the problem - i will be able to use blender and at the same time i dont have to use the native UI which i dislike.

As soon as i will some more time, i will look more deeply into it and will try to customize the shortcuts and stuff to make it fit my taste even more. Iam very thankful for that project.

[Tiles]

Hah, i should visit here more often it seems ^^

It's no secret that i had some very bad differences with some trolls in the official Blender community. And this includes even some Blender developers. Quite a few still thinks that i am a clueless moron. That alone is reason enough not to develop anything for Blender ever. Some things simply have consequences. But i don't have bad feelings for the developers or Blender in general. I still report bugs to Blender. I am still active at Blender Stack Exchange. And help of course Blender users too.

I know that one or two of the devs are following the Bforartists progress with an open eye. So when they grab the one or another idea, no problem. And i would give back the favour when they would ask for help with my parts. But this will never happen. Since our personal differences is not even the problem.

They have simply completely different development goals. They will never let go the idea of the hotkey centered workflow. So even when i would want to, my work is simply not welcome there. Since Bforartists walks into a completely different direction. And that's the real problem. I could try as much as i want to, my changes would never make it into the Blender master.

Anyways, now there is not just Blender, now there is also Bforartists. Which fills the gap between a good usability and the available tools. Have fun with it