Workspace and Modeler camera not matching

[Emmanuel]

I am trying to find a way to make use of Modeler cameras in Workspace.

You may have noticed that if you create a camera in Modeler, and set a scene to match a background picture in a window frame, then move to Workspace, the camera settings are changing.
The render in Modeler does not match with the Workspace's render. That's problematic if you want to mix renders from Workspace and Modeler in Photoshop.

See example below : that's the same scene, same windows size, and Bridge is ON. You can see, on the left window showing the Workspace view, that the cubes are touching the left and right borders of the frame. On the right window showing the Modeler view, there is a gap between the frame and the cubes. I was wondering if there was a ratio I could apply to adjust one camera manually.

Here is my experience :

1. If you create a default camera in Modeler. Its size is X=0.5, Y=1.0, Z=1.25 and want to get the exact same view in Workspace, you must select the camera, then clic the Panel tab to see the camera's options and in the FOV field, enter 0.5225 instead of 0.5.

2. Next, if you change the camera zoom in modeler, setting Z value at =0.5, the workspace and Modeler windows won't match again.
Workspace camera's option will show a FOV setting at 1.250. To match both views, you will have to change the FOV to 1.178

3. One more test. Set camera zoom in modeler to Z=1.00, workspace FOV will show 0.625, but 0.643 will be the right setting.

To summ up :
Z=1.250 in Modeler is FOV=0.5225 in Workspace
Z=0.500 in Modeler is FOV=1.178 in Workspace
Z=1.000 in Modeler is FOV=0.643 in Workspace
There is no exact/logical relationship between these ratios... Crazy isn't it ?

Did anyone found a trick to make Worspace camera to match Modeler's one ?

[Emmanuel]

Nine years have passed since that post and we are still struggling to match the angles

Clinton, trueBlue and Workspace specialists, have your discoveries in the operation of the software, over all these years, given you the key to a solution?

[trueBlue]

Question is does Model's Safe Area make a difference in the actual Render to File?
The best I can come up with is, open a Model and Workspace floating window using the same dimensions
I have both set at 640x480
In Model, select the Camera and View from Object
Use Workspace's View controls only to move the Camera

You can also have two docked windows, one for Workspace and the other set to Model
Try adjusting the docked Model window's width to match what you are viewing in Workspace

I am fairly sure Model and Workspace use the same standalone Cameras and Model's Eye (View) does not use Workspace's Eye (View) Camera
Not sure why Model changes the Camera's Size when adjusting the FOV
Changing the Camera's Size in Workspace does not seem to make a difference

.

[Emmanuel]

Thanks for the tips
You are right : I've made some more comparison tests and can confirm that there is no change in FOV. Cameras are the same. It is only a crop issue.

Using Modeler's safe_area guides may help in some frame ratios but not everytime.

From what I understand, Modeler window's view adjusts its content according to the width of the camera ; while the Workspace one does the exact opposite : it keeps the height and adjusts the width !

[trueBlue]

Thanks for the tips
You are right : I've made some more comparison tests and can confirm that there is no change in FOV. Cameras are the same. It is only a crop issue.

Using Modeler's safe_area guides may help in some frame ratios but not everytime.

From what I understand, Modeler window's view adjusts its content according to the width of the camera ; while the Workspace one does the exact opposite : it keeps the height and adjusts the width !

ratio issue.jpg

I think the real question is what is rendered?
When you render these examples from Model using the window's inside dimensions, does the rendered image match the Safe Area or the window?
How about the rendered image using Workspace's Render to File?

[Emmanuel]

I think the real question is what is rendered?
When you render these examples from Model using the window's inside dimensions, does the rendered image match the Safe Area or the window?
How about the rendered image using Workspace's Render to File?

The Safe Area is just a guide that comes from old video formats times (VHS, etc...) : with cathod ray monitors there was a crop of the image so it was important to make sure nothing important was rendered within the margins.

When you render to file using the same resolution or same ratio as your view window, then there is no crop. For example, when I create animations for FullHD format 1920*1080, I always use a preview trueSpace window with this exact size or a (smaller one with same ratio, like 800*450 when working on a single monitor).

[trueBlue]

I changed the Workspace Eye Camera's FOV to match the Model's View Height and it seems a little closer

[Emmanuel]

I changed the Workspace Eye Camera's FOV to match the Model's View Height and it seems a little closer

Changing the FOV is not the solution. The issue comes from the view window behavior, which is different.
Try this : create 2 view windows, with same size, one with Workspace scene and the other one with Modeler, and place it side by side ;
now drag the bottom frame up & down and see how the view changes :
- Modeler view adds space up and down but keeps the camera framing correct.
- WS view add space on the SIDES, so the framing is changing.

Too bad I didn't reported that to Caligari team when trueSpace was still under developement... that was probably an easy fix.

[trueBlue]

I changed the Workspace Eye Camera's FOV to match the Model's View Height and it seems a little closer

Changing the FOV is not the solution. The issue comes from the view window behavior, which is different.
Try this : create 2 view windows, with same size, one with Workspace scene and the other one with Modeler, and place it side by side ;
now drag the bottom frame up & down and see how the view changes :
- Modeler view adds space up and down but keeps the camera framing correct.
- WS view add space on the SIDES, so the framing is changing.

Too bad I didn't reported that to Caligari team when trueSpace was still under developement... that was probably an easy fix.

I see, it is like the object in the view gets bigger on the Workspace view
Try this, in the Link Editor, enter the Camera, select the Camera node and check HorizontalFOV
Now drag the bottom frame up and down as you said
Both view window behaviors act the same
With the Camera unselected, adjust the Camera's FOV in the top-level panel

HorizontalFOV.png (5.44 KiB) Viewed 1112 times

[clintonman]

Here's the trick. Modelspace horizontal FOV is controlled by the Z size value which is the zoom. This has to be converted to a FOV value with some math. Set the FOV on the camera from the script then go inside the camera and set HorizontalFOV on/true/checked on the Camera node.